| Author | Subject: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community |
| Marc | Posted At 09:11:18 03/30/2007
She posts on Craigslist looking for investors and defrauds them out of 1,000s of dollars on horse scam deals. I'm at a loss of $150,000 or so, and have heard of others who have lost as much as $250,000.... I've heard of 50+ victims so far. I need your help, putting this criminal where she belongs. Read my story at www.BadBusinessAlert.com Don't hesitate to post your commnents on the site. thanks for your help |
| C.R.S. |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 11:06:27 03/30/2007 Does she have a name ?? PLEASE TELL US. |
| Kay |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:00:15 03/30/2007 Read the story. This guy did his home work prior to making the deal and was still taken over the coals by the criminal. |
| MM |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:37:07 03/30/2007 Who that actually knows and owns horses (and does the work) thinks the horses are a good investment? Not that anyone deserves to be taken, but, buyer beware. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:26:31 03/30/2007 Marc didn't know anything about horses prior to his involvement. He only knew that this very convincing girl promised him a huge return on his investment after showing him around a fancy Wellington show barn (that she didn't own). |
| L |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:36:36 03/30/2007 I met heather last year at shoshanna gordons,shes one of the worst horse people I have ever met!i hope she gets what she deserves |
| anon |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:12:00 03/30/2007 Heather is no longer welcome at Shoshana Gordon's in case any interested parties would like to know. |
| Viv |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:49:07 03/30/2007 Heather, whatever her name is this week, is the lowest form of life ever to slither across the road. Shoshana is the nicest, most honest person I have EVER met, and unfortunately was taken just like the rest of us. Shoshana is in no way involved with this crook! If anyone has the misfortune of meeting Heather, run for the hills! |
| l |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:02:23 03/30/2007 wrong-shoshanna and heather were in business together and very good friends |
| Sadly |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:02:30 03/30/2007 There is NO question that Shoshana Gordon was a victim of Heather Hargett aka Heather Williams and immediately eradicated Heather from her life when she learned what Heather was doing. Read the website and depositions....make your own decision Heather is very cunning and has taken the best of the best for a ride....Shoshana should not be considered any part of this. Heather covered her tracks fairly well but not enough I am sure Shoshana will post something in her own defense...not that she needs to Heather involved alot of hardworking innocent people |
| l |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:03:20 03/30/2007 wrong-shoshanna and heather were in business together and very good friends |
| Sick & Tired of Heather |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:24:51 03/30/2007 Heather scammed Shoshana the same as she scammed everyone else -- Shoshana threw her out of her life, they absolutely are NOT friends or business partners. |
| HF |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:50:17 03/30/2007 What does this Heather look like??? |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:00:16 03/30/2007 Much like the "girl next door". Brunette, medium to long hair. A little on the heavy side. |
| Sick & Tired |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:03:23 03/30/2007 Brown hair, short & frumpy, a little on the chubby side with a very strong southern accent, probably fake! |
| On The Flip |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 1 replies)
Posted At 19:20:39 03/30/2007 Well, I hate to be this way, obviously this guy lost a lot of money...but what happened to the horses? He DOES own them, right? Why not have HIS horses moved to another barn and sold by a pro? A lot of people who invest in horses don't know a lot about them, but in a place like Wellington, it doesn't take long to find a pro to take them and resell them for enough to at least recoup some of the losses. Again, I'm not saying this Heather is anything but a creep, however, I do think Marc can still get some of his money back by handling this correctly and claiming his assets. I appreciate the warning, but unless this issue is resolved in court and she has been found guilty, etc....it is pretty lousy to, not to mention dumb, to post copies of the depositions on the internet. Besides, if Marc did ALL of his homework, he would have seen the vet records from Europe AND insured the horses on his own, just like any other asset. Sorry, but I don't understand the whole "trying to make a quick buck" thing and treating the horses like some sort of piece of equipment is pretty cheeky and bad business to boot. If the horses are valuable (and even if they are not), he should do the right thing by them and get them into good homes where he KNOWS where they are and who is taking care of them. As with any animal, they are his responsibility...so horseperson or not, he needs to face up to this and make sure they are properly taken care of before crying "poor me" to the world. They didn't ask to be brought into this and its people like this Marc who make lasting scars on horses and are a huge factor in the huge number of horses that are ruined each year by ignorant, greedy, people that pray upon the horse community while trying to make some quick money with no care for the animals themselves or where they end up. STICK WITH PRINTING DUMBASS. |
| Josie |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:32:16 03/30/2007 Poor Shoshana getting stuck in the middle of this, is a fine hardworking upfront businesswoman who is an asset to this community! Heather is a fast talking saleswoman who will say what you want to hear. I am personally very glad I didn't rent my barn to her. Heather drives a big white dually pickup truck, fizzled brown hair and has a skin condition. Looks much older than her alledged 29 years. |
| read |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:43:22 03/30/2007 Obviously you did not read the depositions because if you did you would learn that she bought the horses under her name and took the paperwork and scammed him. The horses were in fact taken and placed with an excellent professional and thankfully they are doing well and be very spoiled by caring people, including Marc. Marc obviously is letting the world see it for themselves. By the way, there are other people involved who also got taken like Marc....see the lawsuit filed in Palm Beach county clerk of courts Peter King v. Heather Williams. Mr. King also invested with her, she sold the horse months ago and kept the money. She stiffed Rob Collucio and Jennifer Beiling on commissions.....match the emails to the depositions and it will make complete sense.... Marc paid over $3500 per month per horse to ensure they were well cared for and never questioned the bills, so obviously the horses came first....he continues to pay top dollar for the horses to get the best care Marc is a victim so dont take issue with him |
| see case |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:46:27 03/30/2007 Case Description Case ID: 502007CA003080XXXXMB Case Caption: PETER KING V HEATHER WILLIAMS Division: AD - FRENCH Filing Date: Thursday , March 01st, 2007 Court: CA - CIRCUIT CIVIL Location: MB - MAIN BRANCH Jury: Y-Jury Type: CD - CONTRACT & DEBT Status: PE - PENDING Related Cases No related cases were found. Case Event Schedule No case events were found. Case Parties Seq # Assoc Expn Date Type ID Name 1 PLAINTIFF @850145 KING, PETER Aliases: none 2 1 ATTORNEY 0838667 FENNER , ESQ, ROBERTA L Aliases: none 3 DEFENDANT @850140 WILLIAMS, HEATHER Aliases: none 4 DEFENDANT @850146 GRIFFON GATE FARM LLC Aliases: none 5 JUDGE AD FRENCH, JUDGE DAVID E Aliases: none Docket Entries Docket Number Docket Type Book and Page No. Attached To: 00000 - ADDITIONAL COMMENTS Filing Date: 01-MAR-2007 Filing Party: Disposition Amount: Docket Text: none. 800FF - CAFF Filing Date: 01-MAR-2007 Filing Party: KING, PETER Disposition Amount: Docket Text: none. PE - PENDING Filing Date: 01-MAR-2007 Filing Party: Disposition Amount: Docket Text: none. 1 CCS - CIVIL COVER SHEET Filing Date: 01-MAR-2007 Filing Party: KING, PETER Disposition Amount: Docket Text: none. 2 CMP - COMPLAINT Filing Date: 01-MAR-2007 Filing Party: GRIFFON GATE FARM LLC, Disposition Amount: Docket Text: none. 3 SMIS - SUMMONS ISSUED Filing Date: 01-MAR-2007 Filing Party: GRIFFON GATE FARM LLC, Disposition Amount: Docket Text: SM-07-020263 4 SMIS - SUMMONS ISSUED Filing Date: 01-MAR-2007 Filing Party: WILLIAMS, HEATHER Disposition Amount: Docket Text: SM-07-020264 RCPT - RECEIPT FOR PAYMENT Filing Date: 02-MAR-2007 Filing Party: KING, PETER Disposition Amount: Docket Text: A Payment of -$256.00 was made on receipt CAMB146208. SRTN - SERVICE RETURN (ATTACHED) Filing Date: 20-MAR-2007 Filing Party: WILLIAMS, HEATHER Disposition Amount: Docket Text: SERVED 3/9/07 RET 3/20/07 5 SRSV - SUBPOENA RETURNED / SERVED Filing Date: 20-MAR-2007 Filing Party: Disposition Amount: Docket Text: GRIFFON GATE FARM 6 MOT - MOTION Filing Date: 28-MAR-2007 Filing Party: WILLIAMS, HEATHER Disposition Amount: Docket Text: OF EXTENSION |
| Buyer Beware |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:53:11 03/30/2007 Why didn't this guy Marc pick up the phone and call one of the big show stables here to find out if this "Heather" was legit? He could have made one call and saved himself a bundle of money. He could have also picked up the phone and called one of the equine insurance companies here and asked about insurance coverage. He also could have picked up the phone and called one of the equine clinics and discussed equine resale, etc. I know several vets who would have given him a realistic idea. I can;t beleive that in this day and age there are still people out there who wire large sums of money to total strangers??????? |
| K |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 23:06:59 03/30/2007 On Craigslist there are many "BEWARE OF FRAUD" NEVER SEND MONEY BY WESTERN UNION, WIRE TRANSFER etc to scammers. This is posted all over the website and in bold highlighted words. So why go ahead and do it? |
| are you reading |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 07:20:05 03/31/2007 read the story, he met her in person numerous times, saw the horses, touched the horses, and then paid...this was not a wiring scam this was a real horse purchase, she scammed him |
| BT |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:19:18 03/31/2007 I agree wth "Buyer Beware" I wouldn't buy an expensive antique without getting an appraisal from Sothebys or a certified appraiser because I know nothing about antiques, same thing with horses, this guy knows nothing about horses except that he "saw the horses and "touched" the horses and then paid. What was he thinking? |
| Lisa |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:55:12 03/31/2007 Can't wait to see how the court decides on this one. Marc may be guilty of bad decision making and for trusting someone that is not trustworthy, but the bottom line is Heather took advantage of him and others. Hopefully she has been "exposed" for the fraudster she is and will pay. |
| rs |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 1 replies)
Posted At 19:11:22 03/31/2007 i would like to meet with marc, i also have been scammed by someone different selling horse supplements named allyn and i am in the industry |
| Too Bad |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:29:56 03/31/2007 Yes the man may have made some poor choices, but this doesn't make the perp a non-perp. Unfortunately many in this business would love to find outside investors and treat them well. When this kind of person scams, it is REALLY bad. It is bad for all of the horse business. And I have not seen one person step up and say " Oh she has been a great trainer/invester contact for me. Yes buyer beware does prevail, but this appears to be a very bad scenerio, right up to her name change that was to try to prove her amateur status. She knew she was breaking rules. It amazes me that she was showing in the A/O's and nobody got after her. The reality is she didn't win enough to have anyone care. This appears to be a poor representative for our horse business |
| AKG |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:34:27 03/31/2007 ...thus making ALL young pros look bad. Or, wait, I apologize, I supposed she is a shamateur, eh? |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:08:25 03/31/2007 heather is an absolute pig and i hope she goes to jail for a long time. she also takes horrible care of her horses i personally witnessed it and she also never paid/pays her barn help. i found one of her grooms a job bc i saw how hard he worked and he never got a dime not even for food. i also personally know a person who rented her an apartment and it was filled with og shit an dirtier than ever. shes GROSS!!!!!!! |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:08:41 03/31/2007 heather is an absolute pig and i hope she goes to jail for a long time. she also takes horrible care of her horses i personally witnessed it and she also never paid/pays her barn help. i found one of her grooms a job bc i saw how hard he worked and he never got a dime not even for food. i also personally know a person who rented her an apartment and it was filled with og shit an dirtier than ever. shes GROSS!!!!!!! |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:09:31 03/31/2007 heather is an absolute pig and i hope she goes to jail for a long time. she also takes horrible care of her horses i personally witnessed it and she also never paid/pays her barn help. i found one of her grooms a job bc i saw how hard he worked and he never got a dime not even for food. i also personally know a person who rented her an apartment and it was filled with og shit an dirtier than ever. shes GROSS!!!!!!! |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:19:28 03/31/2007 sorry for the typo, it was filled with dog shit and the owner was shocked bc she was there maybe one month and he said it was dirtier than it ever had been after a renter had been in there. her horses practically live out and that's fine i mean turnout is good for certain but half the time they didnt see the inside of a stall!!!the amazing thing is she is still posting on craigslist looking for investors its under financial and it says "looking for angel/investor" she needs more than an angel at this point!!!!she is a fat pig and i hope she goes away she gives all horse people a good name hell she gives white trash a bad name!!! i was at a farm next to where she rented and witnessed much of this and it's ALL true!!! |
| C |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:22:39 03/31/2007 Unfortunately it is very difficult to prove equine misrepresentation in a court of law. True this woman Heather is a scam artist but at this point Marc would be better off salvaging some of his loss and donating his horse to a non profit college or school and writing off the loss. A harsh reality but probably cheaper than hefty legal fees to pay. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:25:39 03/31/2007 it makes this impossible for anyone who actually makes money doing this the right way. this girl has been involved with some big professionals which is scrary in itself but she talks a good line and drops a lot of names and makes it all sound good. this poor guy was trying to invest money. obviously any of us that know the business know that it is for fun an no one really makes money at it but she presented him with a business plan that sounded and looked pretty good. she has gotten away with a lot of things and i hope that this is her time. every dog has it's day and we all know she is a DOG!!! bark at the moon heather you will be in jail soon enough!!!! |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:26:19 03/31/2007 it makes this impossible for anyone who actually makes money doing this the right way. this girl has been involved with some big professionals which is scrary in itself but she talks a good line and drops a lot of names and makes it all sound good. this poor guy was trying to invest money. obviously any of us that know the business know that it is for fun an no one really makes money at it but she presented him with a business plan that sounded and looked pretty good. she has gotten away with a lot of things and i hope that this is her time. every dog has it's day and we all know she is a DOG!!! bark at the moon heather you will be in jail soon enough!!!! |
| AKG |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:01:30 03/31/2007 Okay but in reality, being slanderous and obnoxcious online is proving what exactly about the horse world? |
| read |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:44:05 03/31/2007 obviously letting the world know what is happening may save some other poor suspecting individual thi lady had investors with $260,000 and she scammed them all how many professionals out there would love that kind of money to do a legitimate business It is NOT slander when it is true!! Ask the people holding the bounced checks like local vets, feed stores, blacksmiths and other hard working professionals that she stole products and time only to bounce checks |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:58:17 03/31/2007 ok so maybe i took it a little far. i stand by the non childish sounding parts of my statements. the internet has turned into a place for many to say a lot of things. i do know for a fact that this girl has done and does continue to do a lot of things that are quite bad. obviously when this is a matter of public record it is not slander. if it was slander this girl could have sued her accuser and no one could have ready any of this. i found it quite bad when she (and i know this for a fact) did not pay her barn help when he had no food, no car and barely spoke english. i found him a job bc he didnt have enough money to eat a meal after being promised for 4 weeks that he would be paid. i found that to be very offensive. time will tell what she is all about. i only hope that no one else gets taken in the interim by this woman. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:58:58 03/31/2007 ok so maybe i took it a little far. i stand by the non childish sounding parts of my statements. the internet has turned into a place for many to say a lot of things. i do know for a fact that this girl has done and does continue to do a lot of things that are quite bad. obviously when this is a matter of public record it is not slander. if it was slander this girl could have sued her accuser and no one could have read any of this. i found it quite bad when she (and i know this for a fact) did not pay her barn help when he had no food, no car and barely spoke english. i found him a job bc he didnt have enough money to eat a meal after being promised for 4 weeks that he would be paid. i found that to be very offensive. time will tell what she is all about. i only hope that no one else gets taken in the interim by this woman. |
| AKG |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 23:28:14 03/31/2007 I understand that Heather took it too far and I completely support The Cause [posting this as often as possible so people are aware, etc], but saying personal things about her that are not related to the case is so unneccesary. Granted, I was alittle snarky, too, but upon reflection there are things not pertaining to the case that are almost impossible to prove that really do not need to be aired in such a public setting. |
| AKG |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 23:33:02 03/31/2007 ...or maybe I am just naive. Character witnesses will be important to this case and I sincerely believe that posting too much online will create more rumors than fact. Again, I emphasize that I support the case against her and have read all the information provided. |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 09:14:06 04/01/2007 Hi all: First & foremost, I want to thank everyone (except for on the flip) for their support on this cause. Apparently, I'm not the only one that has been affected by this crook. And, besides all the folks here, my attorney knows of 50 (it's probably more by now) other victims that have had incidents with Hargett. Besides filing a lawsuit, which I am pretty sure to be awarded damages that I'll probably never collect on because as I've been told, "she does not have a pot to piss in", I called the Palm Beach FBI and told them the story, even sent them to the webpage. Well, I didn't even get the courtesy of a return call. So much for our criminal system. This is something I have to do myself, and I am making it my mission to spread the word, and see that justice is done. I WON'T GIVE UP! Heather screwed the WRONG guy. ________________ btw, Just wanted to mention that I have such a great attorney, she knows horses very well, owns a beautiful stallion, and very much knows how to handle this case and Hargett. Heater can't BS her way out of this. I'm so lucky to have been referred to her. _______________ That being said, please continue to spread the word around the industry, and if you have been a victim of Hargett, please come forward and tell me your story. You can remain anonymous if you like, but by working together just maybe, we can get somebody in our legal system to pay attention and serve justice. I really appreciate your comments on this board. I'm surprised to see the amount of response. I was just checking to see if anyne had looked at my post :-) You can also post comments to the story on the site, just like you do here. Please don't hesitate to do so, as I'm getting tons of hits on that topic. (around 400 just yesterday) Also, you are encouraged to post your story. Whatever misfortune you had with Heather, tell the world, don't be ahamed, she's a very good con, and has ripped so many people. When I first met Heater, I google her name, but nothing really came up, except for some show records where she competed... Nothing came up to warn me as to her fraudulent activities. I sooooo wish someone like me and many of you guys had written a similar story that would have come up in Google. Do you think I would have invested with her? Google her now, Hargett or Williams, SHE COME UP! So the next guy can benefit by my experience. again, thanks so much to all for your support. Marc |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:25:57 04/01/2007 no akg you werent being snarky. facts are better than me making it a personal thing as far as her looks and her character (or lack thereof). i just know about way too much and knew about it years ago and i didnt believe all of it until her initial arrest a few years back. then one would think that possibly she might clean up her act and maybe one would think she was young and dumb and maybe made some mistakes bc of inexperience. there are many people in our business who frequently rip people off and god knows she is far from being the first out there to basically steal money. however the lengths she has gone to and the overwhelming evidence against her speak volumes. |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 11:02:00 04/01/2007 OK, in response to: On The Flip First, calling someone a DUMBASS without knowing all the fact, reflects on YOUR credibility as one to speak. But for the record: I met Heather at Shoshana's barn. It was a beautiful house, (I was impressed) and the barn (which was spotless) was also very impressive. I met Shoshana, who seemed like a very nice girl and didn't impress me as one that would associate with the likes of Heather Hargett/Williams. I had no way of knowing I was dealing with a con. I understood that this young girl was short of money to make a deal happen and that we both could make a few bucks within a short period of time. I had the bucks and trusted her under the circumstances. I just didn't think that people living in Wellington woud allow crooks to share their house & barn. Shoshana sure didn't tell me that Heather was a crook. I guess she didn't know herself... does that make her a DUMBASS? How about all the other people that have literally come out of the woodwork to tell my attorney that they had been ripped by Heather? Are they all DUNBASSES as well. Not knowing horses DOES NOT make me a DUMBASS as you call it. I'm guilty of trusting someone just like 100 of thousands of people do every day. I believe that people in general are good, honest and hard working, unfortunately that does not apply to everyone. I did do my homework, I Googled her name, nothing negative came up, I called her references, the few that replied spoke highly of her. Even one of her farrier who told me how good she was at buying & selling horses, I understand holds some $6,000 in bad checks. I suppose he must be a DUMBASS as well, according to you.. Now, the horses have been moved to a safe place and are receiving excellent care. Everybody loves and spoils the sh#t out of them. They are such lovely animals. They were checked out by a local vet before they were moved and were deemed sound. I do have insurance on them. I've had it since the day I purchased them. They are up for sale. I understand that Wellington is having a very bad year this year, with that virus and all... So I'm contemplating my options. A tax write off is not an option, I didn't make any money to write off against last year, I just spent, spent and spent some more on these horses. They are valuable, and I'm not giving them away. I'm not desparate. I'm willing to let them go at a loss to a good home, or entertain propositions from pros who have a market for them.... I'm open to reasonable offers. I'm even contemplating about "Learning Horses" It's one of those that I HAVEN'T "Been there, Done That" yet.... Anyone wanna teach a DUMBASS :-) As for the depositions, she was lying through her teeth. There were so many questions that she refused to answer (so she wouldn't incriminate herself) and she never brought any of the documentation that was requested of her... Including vet records & xrays that we ultimately had to obtain from Newman Equestrian. I wonder why? So, under the advice of my attorney, posting the depositions is fair game, and I am certainly within my rights to do so... I will post many more things in the days to come... keep checking back! And finally, I very much resent this statement of yours: "They didn't ask to be brought into this and its people like this Marc who make lasting scars on horses and are a huge factor in the huge number of horses that are ruined each year by ignorant, greedy, people that pray upon the horse community while trying to make some quick money with no care for the animals themselves or where they end up. STICK WITH PRINTING DUMBASS." I was just investing a horse, like many people do. I didn't care to learn the horse industry, it was just an investment. I trusted a trainer and her representations. Doesn't mean I was exploiting the horses. You make it sound like I was investing in a China, child labor sweat shop. I understood that at $5,000 a month for daycare, I was paying for TOP quality care for those horses. And I PAID IT, and never questioned it. So PLEASE, DON'T give me your CRAP about not caring for the horses or giving the industry a bad name. I'm LOOSING MY ASS on those horses, I'm ENTITLED to cry "Poor Me". I'm making my loss a warning (I wish I woud have had, because no one else had the guts to step up) to anyone else considering the investment. Perhaps you should tell us what make you such an authotiry in this matter. Why should anyone listen to your derogatory comments? WHO ARE YOU? Marc |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 11:23:18 04/01/2007 clearly on the flip has some bizarre axe to grind. i wonder if it isnt the girl herself since she/he is the only one to post a lenghty and negative response. i seriously question anyone who would say you will create "lasting scars" on horses that you spent over 100k for |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 11:29:37 04/01/2007 clearly "on the flip" has some bizarre axe to grind. i wonder if it isnt the girl herself or maybe one of the few friends she might have left since she/he is the only one to post a lengthy and negative response. i seriously question anyone who would say you will create "lasting scars" on horses that you spent over 100k for. i could not imagine anyone spending money to purchase horses and then spend a fortune in day care on horses wanting to abuse them or treat them poorly. it is sad that someone who obviously knew nothing about horses going in was so trusting and ready to spend money and has been so royally screwed. certainly this does not make him a "dumbass". if anyone takes the time to read the initial complaint or the depositions it is clear that this heather girl had a rather impressive story to tell and a good business plan albeit flawed in the big picture. i am sure this man will never realize much of his investment and loss but hopefully this will warn other unsuspecting individuals off of this career crook. |
| Jon |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 11:46:52 04/01/2007 Marc, whilst the verbiage of "On the Flip" may appear quite harsh and vulgar, it is terribly naive and irresponsible of you to attempt to invest successfully in an industry that you have zero familiarity and knowledge of. Placing a stone under your pillow and hoping for it to turn into a pot of gold would have reaped far better results than buying horse flesh from an irreputable and little known "tranier." Your negative introduction into the world of horses has little effect on the seasoned and hard working horsemen and women of this community, just another snake oil deal gone bad to a poor suspecting amature.Your lawyer should tell you to cut your losses before she eats up your income in legal fees and your horses eat up your retirment fund in farrier bills board et al. |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 12:02:58 04/01/2007 In case some of you migh have missed it... In the third paragraph is a link to an email file, that shows every email sent to & received by Heather. I will move a copy of that link to the bottom of the page with the other links. I've been receiving emails from others on craigslist that have responded to her recent posts. I will post these as well. I can't believe that even with two active lawsuits, she is still advertising for investors... One could read all the emails & skip the story. Those emails tell it like it is... Thanks to Cheney for the support and that person (on the flip) could very well be Heather, or someone that, supports her??? |
| Angela |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 12:06:23 04/01/2007 Marc, Thank-you for bring this to light. We need to know as a community about the snakes in the grass. Where is the legal process currently in regard to her? |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 12:12:00 04/01/2007 cheney, you are not helping matters with the tenor of your posts. It is very unfortunate Marc got taken this way, because our sport needs more outside investors, and this kind of thing hurts us all. Shame on this Heather!!!! And I am saying this as the 1975 U.S. National A/O hunter Horse-of-the-Year Chamption on a horse of the quality Heather only dreamed of riding. So I think I am very well qualified to speak ont his subject. Where are the people who attended the shows this Heather showed at in the A/O division while conducting professionala activities? Is there not one of you who has the guts to some forward and file an official USEF protest to get her suspended, fined, and/or sanctions, if this ca be proven? I strictly abided by the amateur rules when I showed in that division, for having the privilege of doing so. I had many offers at the time to engage in professional activities, but I did not take the kinds of unethical short-cuts that this Heather apparently did. She is not alone, I know. I was denied employment at a Tampa Bay area show barn, in favor of a girl showing in the A/O division who was openly teaching lessons. This really cheapens, demeans, and harms the A/O divisions, and all those who are competing in that division who are expecting a level palying field. Shame on you Heather -- I hope someone lodges a protest and turns you in for masquerading as an A/O while really a professional. Next, after I won my A/O National Championship, I turned professional. I also graduated law school with a joint Juris Doctor/Master in Business Administration degree. I NEVER bought or sold horses without a very clear contract spelling out exactly who would pay what and when. I NEVER received both a buying and selling commission on the same one transaction, and of there were a conflict of interest, I dosclosed it and obtained a waiver by both parties involved. It is a good thing Marc was able to get a lawyer knowledgeable about horses, but I have to wonder (given the equine work my Florida Bar member husband does, and some of the business problems I have encountered when dealing with others) why there is some problem proceeding third party beneficiary on the contract, and why a constructive trust and/or equitable lien is not being placed on these horses? If Heather did not disclose all these commissions she was taking, and then used them to purchase Silco, why isn't this constructively Marc's money entitling him to a larger share ownership of Silco? And what about the commission used from others for a share in Silco, purportedly under this Heather's name? It could be the others who were not disclosed the commissions might really be constructive owners of Silco as well. What a mess to sort out. If Heather still owns a share of Silco, she could still have some rights to call the shots, one would think. It was a beautiful complaint, though. That is why I always had very detailed contracts of my own in my business, because I never got into trouble with disputes over who was supposed to pay what and what was due to who. The legal profession needs more lawyers who understad horses like Marcs, which are, sadly, in very short supply in this State, and his lawyer should be commended. One real problem I had (and I have not finished reading the depos), is why Miss Heather doesn't understand what Marc's lawyer can do to her for not cooperating with the discovery. Hopefully, Marc's lawyer will be able to teach her a thing or two about being compelled and/or contempt. When our sport desteriorates to the point someone who was a good faith investor has to suffer further and further losses before whatever can be recovered, such as Heather's lack of cooperation increasing the litigation costs, the entire sport loses because we lose new investors. And double shame on Heather for making a promise she should have known she could not fulfill -- what truly qualified professional would promise a sales turnover in 30-60 days? My experience is in a much lower priced range of horses, it could easily take up to 4 months or even longer. I have sold horses in 2 weeks, but that is the exception, not the rule. With these top dollaw horses, it can take much longer than 4 months -- I know, I sold a top dollar horse. All this really makes me sick. I was never for licensing in this profession, but I have come to the point of agreeing that all equine professional should be licensed. That would separate the wheat from the chaf. How does a Maclay competitor stack against someone with a lot more show record qualifications? Licensure would be the way for those new to pur sport to know. Marc, I hope you have your horses in good hands to try to get your sale. If not, I have the qualifications to help you, and ride at a show barn in the Tampa area that could give you a lot better prices while trying to make your sale. If your horses are sound, then a bit of a show record might help you recover the prices you were hoping to get. I could not tell unless I saw the horses work, but if they got a bit of a shoew record with someone who has demonstrated they are a top of the line rider, perhaps you could still pull out of this ok. Our sport does not need to discourage new investors like you. Good luck! |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 12:36:15 04/01/2007 Hi jon: and thanks for your comment. "On The Flip"'s comment was offensive and unnecessary. I didagree with you about my irresponsible investment in the unknown! I base my investment on representations. Geez, no one told me that she was "an irreputable and little known tranier." Shoshana who owns the facility where Heather lived & dealt, should have known about her, shouldn't she? I'm assuming that Shoshana has been around horses for a while. I understand that she suffered some minor loss from her as well. Was she irresponsible? I don't think so. I'm sorry, no matter how naive any of you try to make me out to be, I was conned. Pure & simple. It happens all the time in all industries. In fact I just read a story in the Broward, Palm Beach New Times (this weekk's issue) about a horsewoman, I believe she sold tack, been around for years... who invested in a horse with a trainer from VA, "Pato" something or other and experienced the very same con job. She paid 1/2 of what she thought was a $60,000 horse, while the horse really cost only $32,000. I guess her partner just "forgot" to tell her that the horse didn't really cost $60,000. It's not just me! "Your negative introduction into the world of horses has little effect on the seasoned and hard working horsemen and women of this community, just another snake oil deal gone bad to a poor suspecting amature" I strongly disagree! You don't know me or the extent I will go to MAKE a difference. There will be benificial effects. There already are. If you Google Heather Hargett, or Williams, you will see the scam articles, But I've just started. As for my losses, I'm willing to sell the horses & spend evey dime it takes to see justice. I totally trust my attorney to act in my best interest and guide me in the right direction, and will stick with her to the end. Marc |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 12:36:16 04/01/2007 very good posting ms petrano and i agree with you and akg that i may have taken it a bit far with the comments at first but understand i have had personal experience with this girl. i am glad that you pointed out the whole amateur aspect bc i currently see a woman training at the ring right here at the shows in wellington who rides as an adult. i unfortunately know her too and i asked her if she was training again bc she has flip flopped as a trainer then an amateur then back. she said no she was just helping her trainer and that she rides in the children/adult jumpers. i chose not to pursue the matter with her. people have the idea that this woman rides so poorly that no one bothers to complain. i know another prominent amateur that sent a horse to heather to be sold and she did not know heather was an amateur and when the horse was not sold she just paid the bill and moved on and then she found out that she rides as an amateur. i am sure most people know that you can sell horses and ride as an amateur providing the horses belong to you. you are not able to do much else if you ride as an amateur. i personally am in that gray area myself. i dont train anyone and rarely am i paid to ride but i don't need to open a can of worms only to have easier competition and i would not openly break the rules like that anyway. i am sure this "investor" has been quite discouraged at this stage of the game. your posting is very informative and a good addition to this board. |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 13:17:59 04/01/2007 Hi, Mary Katherine: Thank you so much for your support. Yes, Ms. Bonnie Navin esq. is an outstanding attorney. And, I'm certainly fortunate to have been referred to her. I understand that she is with one of the TOP 10 firms in S. Florida. I sat through Heather's first deposition and there is no doubt in my mind as to her competence in her profession. The fact that she knows horses so well is such a plus. She can run circles around Heather's BS. Moreover, she has been such a big help in getting the horses in a safe place, with great care at a reasonable price. I was soooooo trapped until I met her. Heather on the other hand is now consulting with a third attorney who seem confident that he can resolve all of this. Good Luck! I say. Of course he has not met with Heahter that I know of, nor has he read the email file yet.. So we will see... I believe we do have a trial date set for the end of May. I would have to get an update as to where we stand as of this moment. I understand that Little wood is just about over. In the next few weeks we will consider other options. Perharps I will contact you and maybe come to Tampa to meet with you. You are more than welcome to Contact Ms. Navin to discuss the possibilities of the horses coming to your area. Again, Thanks so much for your support Marc |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 13:19:52 04/01/2007 Marc, my husband who was sitting here telling me to write down some of the comments he was making, says if your lawyer wants to consult another equine lawyer or needs help finding experts for you, he would be happy to help her. We know a lot of horse people. His name is David F. Petrano, Esq., and she can email him at dpetrano@yahoo.com if she ever wants any help, maybe with locating names of good experts. You say she has a stallion, but if she is not specific to the hunter/jumper industry, my husband might be a valuable resource for her. Jon, what makes you think Marc won't be able to recover all his losses? Maybe those horses Heather's relatives hold in their names are really hers, and if she were forced to answer the depo questions she stonewalled, this would be found out, and Marc's lawyer could go after them. Sounds like Miss Heather took the best horses for herself anyways. Don't all of us hard working trainers wish it were as easy as just going on a shopping aspree like Heather to get ourselves some horses to show and win with. cheney, when I was an A/O, I paid for my showing by (is this a suprprise?) workign hard enough to be a good rider, that produced the prize money in the A/O division, and I also braided a lot of manes and tails. What I see is Miss Heather did nto have what it takes to cut it with the real professiponals, so she had to take the short-cut easy way out -- show in the A/Os so she could win some, and be able to refer to her winnings at certain shows. That is really a form of cheating. When I was still a junior rider, showing with the late R.W. "Ronnie" Mutch, I also showed in the 2nd year green hunter divisions myself -- not Ronnie showing my horse for me. That included Oc Ridge, Devon, etc. The thing is, it is all about how good a rider one is, and sometimes how much time a person has to devote to riding. Understandably, there are some who maintain their A/O status because they work in regular jobs, and just don't have the time to ride all day. This puts them at a relative disadvantage, as compared to those who are getting paid to ride all sorts of horses all day -- it is a matter of hours spent in the saddle. There are also those who show A/O because they have not mastered their horsemanship to the point of being able of cutting it with the professionals, and they want and deserve a division where they can compete with others liek them on a level playing field. Then, there are those who may juyst be a bit timid of higher jumps or greener horses. For whatever reason, it sounds to me like Miss Heather was fraudulently disguising getting paid to ride and work the horses as a professional under the guide of a "daycare" fee. I am sure Marc's lawyers will be looking at her records and activities in detail. Ususally whe we took horses for sale, the seller paid the board, advertising, vet, shoeing, trailering, and show fees, and we charged a sales handling fee of about another $200 per month, unless the horses were really in training as well, then it was a $400 per month fee. Our sales handlign fee meant the horses got groomed, bathed, turned out, and ridden at least 4 days per week. Usually, the horses that were on a sales program to develop a bit of a show record were on training board if they were green or just broke. Made show hroses for sale were usually handled on the sales handling fee. So, when I am seeing the excesses apparently charged by Heather as a so-called "daycare" fee, the first thing comes to mind is she is really getting paid a professional trainer's fee. What Heather did as means to get rich and put top level show horses under he quick is also an insult to many hard working professionals. When a person gives up the A/O status, there is not easy short cut and no other professionals don't cut any breaks in the show ring. Either a professional can ride and win in the company of other priofessionals or not. And this depends on teh riding education one has acquired as well as a tremendous amount of hard work every day. I wish I could be handed on a silver platter these type of horses Heather apparently scammed quickly, but instead I have built both my professional reputation and advanced my riding ability by training horse after horse that others had difficulty riding -- horses that rear, horses that buck, horses that stop, horses that run out, horses that lay down, horses that don't stand at the mounting block, horses that gallop off when you try to mount, ponies that run out the gate with little kids, horses that have never been ridden, horses that have never jumped -- you name it, I have ridden them all. Most professionals also have acquired a great deal of experience keeping problem horse sound enough to show, and to know before paying to purchase a horse just what the end objective is and having a sufficient level of vetting done before hand. Even Olympic level horses can have some serious soundness problems, but still be able to compete successfully. It all depends on what is the problem. As far as how to sell a horse for a lot of money, it is more about the training and the talen than cooking up a list of buyers. A well trained, athletic horse, with a developing show record is usually much sought after, and I have personally taken horses some of my clients have begged other trainers to take on that they rejected, and worked them, started developing a show record, and sparked a bidding war at ringside even among some of these trainers! I think the biggest problem I see here and have experienced myself, is there are way too many so-called trainers who hang out their shingle and put other peoples' safety and finances at risk, who themselves have no real show record. It is always a good thing to ask the trainer, and what have you won, what divisions, and where? |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 13:40:55 04/01/2007 I think I misunderstanding - I read everything - how were you scammed? You said you have the horses and they are nice horses and valuable? |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 13:45:07 04/01/2007 Sorry, i meant "Ox Ridge" |
| bonnie |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 13:57:10 04/01/2007 I am the attorney representing Marc Buck and yes I have been in the horse industry in South Florida with prominent trainers for 20+ years. Marc fully recognizes that Ms. Hargett has no money (or hidden money as many believe) and may ultimately recover a judgment that will take him many years to collect. We can not obviously display our legal strategy and perhaps in time it will come out for all to hear. Mary Katherine we have already addressed your thoughts, it is all about timing. Her first two lawyers felt confident their client was in the right and after a few weeks of reading the emails and fraudulent bill of sales, etc., opted not to represent Heather. I don't know their reasons nor would I purport to guess. As to her new counsel, we will see. Certainly we would love her to have counsel which makes my job easier dealing with lawyers rather than a pro se defendant. Mary Katherine, thanks for your kind words and having other good lawyers for an extra set of eyes is always welcoming. I get numerous calls monthly in your area and will certainly refer people to your husband as I try to stay in South Florida. I have handled lots of equine cases to success for many of our local trainers, vets, and sellers/buyers. Most, if not all, never make it this far because good people realize what went wrong and resolve matters confidentially before becoming public. Many local trainers refer clients to me for assistance. Many of the cases I did at NO cost to assist the horse community. Ms. Hargett was offered many options towards resolution and she snubbed her nose because, as she advises, wants her opportunity t0 prove she was in the right. Perhaps she will read this thread and realize that if the panel members of this Board are any representative of her peers for a jury then perhaps she should rethink strategies. Trial is set for June and will likely be a 2-3 day trial and certainly anyone can watch the proceedings. As far as Marc's webpage etc that is his business and not part of the lawsuit or where this will go. That is separate from what I am doing legally for him. Heather wanted the webpage taken down but her second lawyer recognized the rights to the first amendment to post a customers "gripe". If she continues that quest a high profile group will represent Marc for FREE for the webpage issue and frankly I can't mention that group at this time. That is between them and Marc. Thank you for your support! |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:01:10 04/01/2007 AL, what are you misunderstanding? Apparently Miss Heather took Marc's money (a lot of it) and then put the horses in her name. That's pretty low. She also made him a promise too good to be true -- 30-60 day turnaround. Then she took a lot of commission money she did not tell him she was taking, and even used it to self-deal her own interests. Let's see, if she were a lawer -- taking client money and putting it in her name, aha a trust fund violation. Making a guarantee, that's a no no, too. And self-dealing? she would be headed to a well deserved disbarment. But you don't see anything wrong with what she did? Maybe not, until it happens to you. Actually, this case is a classic example of why Kentucky and other states have or are considering enacting legislation governing horse agents, disclosures, and what commissions they can receive. And maybe Marc and his lawyer shoudl get ahold of that guy who owns the Kendall-Jackson winery in Northern California, Jess Jackson, I believe. He is a lawyer, too, but became a winery owner, and when he invested in racehorses and got burned, he became the impetus for the Kentucky legislation and cleaning up some of this shady dealing. And I have to say, I really do not feel sorry for Miss Heather at all -- there are those of us who won more of a show record than she has AND graduated law school, who know better. Ignorance and illeracy in the law is no excuse!! Shame on her!!!! Some people made it through 4 years of law school AND business school as a single mother with a child AND still won a good show record AND has worked every kind of prpoblem horse. Now, there's someone who would know what to do with a good horse! And, AL, I don't think it is about whether the horses are valuable -- it is about the ROI (Marc's expected return on investment). The horses could still be relatively valuable, and he could lose even what he started with. MBA Class 101. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:04:17 04/01/2007 It seems to me that Mary Katherine's "support" is strangely suspect. What started as an unbias opinion on the matter turned into her seeking business for her attorney husband and for herself in the manner of representing the horses for sale. How did this turn into the "page for Mary Katherine's accolades?" Once again, she uses this forum to further her own causes. At least this one didn't turn into an ADA dispute. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:18:34 04/01/2007 so far the lawsuit between narvick (emmanuel and laura de seroux) and that kendall jackson guy it is at a standstill. the only reason there has been any movement at all is bc the trainer bruce headley chose to testify in order to save himself. it was thrown out by one judge. a similar situation involving the owner of padua farms and basically the whole bloodstock world became a complete joke when satish sanan (padua) wanted to have disclosure as he felt he had been ripped off spending millions on horses. he then had a horse in the saratoga select yearling sale that he owned a part of yet it was not disclosed in the sale catalogue. so for sure what's good for the goose is good for the gander as they say. and yes "interested party" ms petrano has turned this into a forum to pat herself on the back repeatedly even though her constant mention of winning the A/O occured over 30 years ago. yeh and went to law school blah blah. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:20:03 04/01/2007 Yes, Mary Katherine, but I am certain I read in the emails where she offered to buy him out of the horses. He would have gotten all his money back - that is what I don't understand. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:22:16 04/01/2007 One more thing - If the horses are in her name - how does Marc have them? |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:24:51 04/01/2007 No, Interested Party, not at all. By the way, at this juncture, I am demanding you identify yourself under your anonymouns blog ID since you attack purely good motives to help someone weho has posted about his proble, who, like myself, has been burned by unethical people in this industry. As I last recall, I posted about a person who was starving horses, and I now have a picture of a dead horse he starved in my possession. You take issue with saving horses? It is a federal crime to attack someone under an anonymous blog ID and not disclose your name when demand is made upon you. If you want me to cite that federal law, I will happily do so. Please immediately provide me your name. My husband does not need more case work. He is pretty busy as it is, and has turned a number of cases down recently. I was only providing support to Marc's lawyer, and offering a hand, if wanted or needed, on the horse trainer-sales end. It is less expensive up here in Tampa, and most shows now move North anyways. Bonnie, it was a pleasure to hear from you. I hope you are active in The Florida Bar, and maybe someday the Bar can be persuaded to create an equine law section or committee. Animal Law is not the same thing. Florida is a major State for doing horse business, wasn't that $40 billion horses contribute to Florida's economy as the survey on Floridahorse.com reveals? If you and other equine lawyers you know can take the initiative and get The Florida Bar to create such an equine law section/committee, maybe someday I can join it, too. I just know from my time living in California, and the number of equine case inquiries my husband gets, there is a real shortage of lawyers who know and understand the horse world. We could all use more numbers of knowledgable lawyers!! IP, so what gets your craw about the Americans With Disabilities Act? In a sport with so many rider injuries leading to disabilities, therapeutic riding, and Special Olympics, what is it exactly you hate -- all the people who are not perfect speciments of health? Get a life. Maybe you should do some community service at Viceremos, it would open your eyes. FYI, I see the Nations of the World have so overwhelmingly responded to the new disability treaty in so few days that it is just 19 Countries short of becoming a UN treaty in force. Now THERE's the answer to your anti-social attitude -- you're out-voted. I also have to wonder if you're such a complainer because you know you can't out-ride me. Or, alternatively, maybe you're heather or one of her cronies. If you don't have anything constructive to contribute to the discussion here, why don't you take your Wellie-gossip somewhere else? I am very good at what I do. My show record speaks for itself. And I think Marc's complaints also speak for themselves. Why do some people have such a hard time with the idea of seeing more ethical conduct in the horse world? |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:27:15 04/01/2007 I don't really know Heather - just seen her at the horse shows, but she does take very good care of her horses. They may not be the best ones at the show, but they do look like they belong. I have never done business with her so I can not comment on her business practice, but how has she scammed someone out of $250K when she has only ever had a few horses at a time? She had the same ones forever. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:29:26 04/01/2007 she wanted to buy him out over some insane period of time, like years and with no interest. this was supposed to be a 3 month turn around. sound too good to be true?? well obviously it was but possibly to a non horse person who cleary has made money as an entrepreneur in the past and with a business plan that seemed so clear cut......i am sure if heather would have paid him even the money he had invested without the extra day money involved he would have taken it and run. take a minute to read all of it. i have been involved in the horse business my whole life i just dont choose to write down my parents names and e mail addresses and so on though my father is a top professional i dont need to write down my accomplishmets and solicit business bc we have enough without trying to find clients on a message board for the whole world to see |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:29:49 04/01/2007 she wanted to buy him out over some insane period of time, like years and with no interest. this was supposed to be a 3 month turn around. sound too good to be true?? well obviously it was but possibly to a non horse person who clearl has made money as an entrepreneur in the past and with a business plan that seemed so clear cut......i am sure if heather would have paid him even the money he had invested without the extra day money involved he would have taken it and run. take a minute to read all of it. i have been involved in the horse business my whole life i just dont choose to write down my parents names and e mail addresses and so on though my father is a top professional i dont need to write down my accomplishmets and solicit business bc we have enough without trying to find clients on a message board for the whole world to see |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:37:44 04/01/2007 wonder why petrano is getting so heated up??? the funny thing is i have never heard of her in my entire life. so she was champion 30 plus yrs ago, so what?? so maybe she had her 15 minutes, good for her. im over this whole thing it's become a complete joke. i hope mr buck is able to recover some money and justice is served. and no i am not signing my name to this one if you want to seek me out petrano go right ahead!!!!! i am not concerned about the threats and all the legalese you spout. yes i know you went to law school, congratulations. am sure most people could out ride you but they probably can not out talk you. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:40:20 04/01/2007 Good for you Cheney!! The number of soap boxes here is getting out of control. I am glad I wasn't the only one here who had never heard of her. She was soliciting business it seemed. |
| read |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 1 replies)
Posted At 14:40:26 04/01/2007 If you read the depositions you will learn she wanted to buy him out over three years with no interest and she had NO money which means she would have had the horses and run out of town with the horses and chase her for the money I can buy alot by signing my namewhen I knew I would never pay....she is driving a truck that she never paid for she took her old partner's horse and leased it for $30,000 for a year and kept the money and still sent him bills as if she still had it she is clever guys,,,,,,read closer |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:43:03 04/01/2007 How does someone get away with driving a truck they never paid for? I am sorry but with statements like that I want to start to defend her. That sounds like total BS. If the truck wasn't paid for someone would come and get it - HELLO - repo?? |
| Angela |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:44:20 04/01/2007 Hey Interested Party, If you're going to make comments to Mary of such a nature, why be a mole and a coward, and not leave an email address like everyone else? That says much about you... We don't need or want to hear what you have to say, if you can't back it with your name. Angela |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:47:47 04/01/2007 thanx al well i am signing outta this and yes you are right it has turned into more of a free for all than a simple warning from mr buck. notice he has stated only public record and facts and he has the biggest reason to sling mud than anyone on here. this has turned more into an instant message of mutual butt kissing, major self indulgency and a mutual admiration society of nothing. good luck to my buck and his attorney. enjoy bitching at each other everyone!!!! |
| Angela |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:51:33 04/01/2007 Hey Cheney... it says your email is Heather123@yahoo.com - is this a freak coincidence... or are you Heather. Maybe this is one of the "personal" email addresses she didn't want to give Marc's attorney during the deposition. Marc, I've put the word out to all of my horse friends and business associates about this woman. I'm so glad you let us know. We wonder why the horse industry gets such a bad reputation. It's a shame. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:51:38 04/01/2007 Not to totally disregard what you said, but having a sister as an attorney; people should remember this is not all facts stated - nothing has been decided on. I sure would be careful posting things like she lied in her deposition and she is a scammer. No court of law has decided that yet. The warning is nice, but we will all have to wait and see what gets set in stone. There are 3 sides to every story. Each opposing side and then the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. This is just one side. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:53:43 04/01/2007 Angela - read Cheney' post - obviously not Heather - she totally bashes her. She didn't like Mary Katherine. |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:55:13 04/01/2007 cheney, why do you want to fight with everybody? That doesn't make for a good way to reach a concensus, which is that this Heather wronged Marc. I was only offering to help with the training-sales end. I have won in the hunter divisions at some of the biggest shows in this Country. That is what I do. I wasn't "patting myself on the back." But, if you want to know, and this is a tit-for-a-tat, I found your incessant call for criminal penalties against Heather a bit dreary, since it is pretty hard to get a criminal prosecution much less conviction on a horse matter in Florida. Ask all the horse people up here in Tampa who have tried to get a procesution of two individuals for animal cruelty for starving (and as photos show, killing) innocent helpless horses. Good luck! A lot of the judges don't understand horses, so it is very difficult. Why don't you do something more productive, like keep your focus on what will help Marc. That's why he wrote. Either way, I will get horses to train, I always do -- because I can ride them. I have the show record to win in the hunters. Other people do, too, coming to mind, Scott Hoffstetter, Louise Serio, maybe even locate Maryianne Steiert. It sounds like that is what Marc will need to sell these horses for anywhere near the Rate of Return promised him. There are no sure bets. I only offered, because I do not charge ridiculous prices like some places. But maybe others out there will be willing to cut Marc a break. AL, it isn't just about Marc getting back what he paid. He has a lot of expenses not in his original understanding of what Heather promised him under the investment plan she proposed. When people bring me horses to sell, I always keep reminding them the longer it takes to sell (because of a higher price), the more expenses will accrue. It is not rocket science. Then, Marc was also promised a good return on investment. In the real world of investments, someone with the capital will shop around among different types of investment opportunities, and select one depending on the amount of risk things will go south, and how high the return might be. Say, Marc expected to double his money, then he will have to get (1) what he paid for the horses, plus (2) all the expenses, plus on top of that (3) his rate of return on investment. To illustrate (and I don't have the exact figures), say he spent $150 K on horse purchase prices, plus $25 K on expenses by the time of sale, plus on top of that (3) he was promised a $150 K return on his original purchase price, then he will have to get $325 K to realize the benefit of his bargain -- what he was promised and led to believe he would get. Now, he also has legal costs and fees, but hopefully his lawyer will be able to recover those against Miss Heather. Do you get it now? Is this realistic? That is a big question. A lot of things can go wrong in the horse business, that is the risk factor. Maybe Marc was not fully informed by Heather what the risk was of the investment. But now he is stuck. And, like it or not, if the rest of us in the horse world can't help Marc out, we all will suffer from another investor being turned off to the idea of investing in our sport. That hurts us all. Maybe next time he will choose motorcycles, not horses. How much can he get back (leaving the legal costs/fees out if it)? It is not easy to command the prices Heather promised -- pie in the sky. To do that, these horses have to demonstrate they could acquire a top level show record as hunters, or show high level jumper potential -- preferably Level 7-8 and/or grand prix. If Marc pays the horse expenses way too long, it will eat up any possible ability to recover the benefit of the bargain -- unless he finds out he has the next "Oh Star" or "The Natural." So, realistically, if these horses are as good as they purport to be, then they should be able to start acquiring a nice show record in the hunters at 3'6" -- maybe they are still eligible 1st year green? If they are fairly quiet, they might be marketable for a junior or A/O. If they have the right mind and athletic ability, they might be marketable as a Medal/Maclay/USET equitation horse. Maybe one or both can eventually do the 4' hunters? If any of these possibilities pans out, then with the start of a winning show record, a brief deminstration of what they can do, what they are capable of, Marc may be able to sell a dream -- someone else's dream to bring to fruition, and find the buyer that thinks so and is willing to pay the price. Heather cooked up a tall order that won't be easy to fill. cheney, if you know the right trainer with a stellar show record who can help Marc without charging an arm and a leg, then say so. All I did was offer to help. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:02:44 04/01/2007 I hear what you are saying Mary Katherine but it seems you didn't read the emails through all the way. It says in there how much he paid for each horse and what he had in them expense wise. It was something shy of $140K so how did we get to $325K? granted she may have promised too much, but I just had to pay $150K for a half way descent Amateur horse. I was told that if I went to indoors I would hopefully get a ribbon if I ride well. I can't afford the winner. I have been unable to find a descent place to take care of my horse without it costing an arm and a leg too. I think that is part of it - you get what you pay for. My trainer is fantastic but very pricey. |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:05:05 04/01/2007 And, cheney, I am about to get on a horse, since I ride not just talk, so I will look into whether you are Heather who rode with the Annie Oakley I never heard of before either, or not. I really have a hard time believing anyone would not know who I rode with, Ronnie Mutch, the real McCoy. Later. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:07:47 04/01/2007 I think cheney has signed off - It isn't that we didn't know who Ronnie Mutch is - it was your name that wasn't recognized. No harm done though - doesn't mean much at this point! I am sure you ride just fine and run a legit business. I like to try to look at every thing from all angles so to speak. |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:11:26 04/01/2007 If she hasn't owned any of these horses the how does she have outstanding bills with vets, farriers, . . . That doesn't make sense. You guys are starting to contradict yourselves. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:13:17 04/01/2007 As the screen name I chose for this discussion suggests, I AM an interested party in this matter. I have been closely involved in assisting Marc for months now. Keeping my anonymity is important right now until my deposition has been taken. I am a frequent contributor to this board and have never posted anonymous comments previously. Sorry... couldn't help myself. I'd like to keep this about the matter originally posted but must defend myself on just a couple of points: 1) I have nothing against members of our society with disabilities. As a matter of fact, I have volunteered hundreds of hours assisting with a Horses and Handicapped program. I've worn out plenty of paddock books from sidewalking. 2) Your comment about outriding me was just plain childish. My walls and shelves are full of year-end awards that aren't from 30 plus years ago. I don't typically feel the need to discuss them in this type of forum. My willingness to assist Marc from the beginning was motivated by a desire to help someone who had been wronged by a member of our community. And believe me, I have spent hundreds of hours involved in this situation hoping to ensure a rightful resolution for Marc and good show homes for these horses. He's in great hands with his attorney, but as we all know, you can't get blood out of a stone. MK - I'm happy to give you my identity as the case progresses. I stand by my opinion as you are welcome to yours of me. |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:15:23 04/01/2007 I would like to get through to the truth of this. She made a $10K commission on horses that cost $65K? That is not excessive. What did she charge for the care? |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:20:39 04/01/2007 The problem was, she didn't disclose (actually hid the fact) that she would be making the commission, and had the bills of sale made out to her. She was charging $1500 per month per horse for dry stall plus $75 per day for daycare plus all ancillary expenses. |
| Sick & Tired of Heather |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:22:18 04/01/2007 She made $10k per horse and NEVER disclosed this to Marc. Additionally, she charged an outrageous monthly OFF-SEASON board, plus other fees. |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:25:27 04/01/2007 No offense, but I thought you were going to say something a whole lot more ridiculous than that. I charge $125 per day for daycare, and the stalls are $10K for season. Again - not defending her, but I charge more than that. The cost of being in WPB is alot. It isn't like we are making money hand over fist. Do you know what it cost to pay staff and house them, what the feed stores are charging? renting farms with huge deposits and renting jumps . . . the list goes on. The bill of sales are in her name - how does he have the horses then? Seems like she would be fighting that. There has to be more to it than that. |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:27:30 04/01/2007 Did she supply him with a rate sheet at the onset of all of this? I have customers complain about the expense, but it is all right there on the rate sheet so they know before I take on their horse. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:30:16 04/01/2007 I have the same question as AL - did she provide him with a rate sheet describing the cost of doing this. I have to say this is far less than what I pay. I pay a minimum of $5K per month for my horse - without horse showing. Sure I could pay less, but not to have the best. Not sure this is enough for me. The $10K commission disclosed or not - did he expect her to do it for free? If so - sign me up for that. I could own 2 -3 extra horses at this point if I had never had to pay a commission. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:31:46 04/01/2007 She didn't fight his ownership of the horses because she knows he owns them. Her rate sheet was incorporated into her business plan and spreadsheet, but not too clearly defined. But remember, she told him that the expenses would be very short term as she "had buyers waiting in line". |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:36:15 04/01/2007 What did she charge off season? Was it a nice facility - the one he described on the website - I think he uses the word impressive - doesn't sound free either. It is starting to sound like some of you are jumping the gun here. Show me the "ripping off" or "scamming". If it happened I will get on my soap box right along with you. I can't bash someone that charges less than I do. It is so hard here with all the rental prices and necessities - the truth of it is - it is very expensive to be here!!! From the content of the emails it sounds more like he simply couldn't afford it. He says the horses are in good hands and sound - why does he still have them then. Why is he still putting monthly money into them. What does he pay now? |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:43:08 04/01/2007 Ok - I am a salesman myself. I have had people call me around the clock about a horse - you would think they would die if they didn't have it and then the deal falls through. That is an unfortunate part of the sales business. How many times have you gone and looked at a car or a house or an apartment to rent and thought you were serious until you found something else or were purely windowshopping and mislead the sellers???? That is classic for the horse business. I can't knock her on that. Surely all this griping is about something more than this. I thought you were going to tell me she made a $50K commission or something. So he knew what the rates were before he bought the horses - sorry - he knew what to expect monthly then. I can't have sympathy for that. Did she charge him daily for riding? What other than the $75 per day and the stall rate? I hope he knows he can't legally sell those horses until he has a bill of sale stating he is the owner - FYI. Seen that before too. That will probably be the next drama. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:46:41 04/01/2007 Kudos to JB!! I have been showing and spending money on horses for the better part of 30 years now. I absolutely love it. The bottom line is - it is VERY EXPENSIVE. It is not for everyone. If Marc was provided with a rate sheet - having a hard time feeling so bad for him now. Please correct me if I am wrong - quick recap - Heather made a $10K commission on each horse; she charged $1500 per month for the stall during season; and she charged $75 per day for care? Wow you would be astounded to see one of my bills. That is not a bad budget to function on for this business. |
| BF |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:50:24 04/01/2007 FYI - those expenses are not high at all. I get charged daily for lasers, mag. blankets, icing, lessons, rides, clipping, . . . It is several thousand dollars a week to take care of my horses. If you can't afford it - it was a bad business choice Marc. I don't see anywhere where there were guarantees made. With high profit comes high risk. My husband dabbles with the stock market - high risk with high profit - if it is a good week. Bad week = high risk with high loss. You should have gone with something more secure. |
| BF |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:54:49 04/01/2007 Marc - you should have taken the offer to be bought out; you had the horses throughout circuit and they still are not sold. Now it is going to cost you more money to send them on the road to get sold - yikes - I think I would have rather had her responsible for the daily expenses! At least then the bleeding would have stopped from your wallet. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:59:37 04/01/2007 To Interested Party : I would like to see this rate sheet; went back and looked on the other website and found nothing. Can you help with this? I told you there are 3 sides to everything - we are only getting part of it. |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:01:23 04/01/2007 I second that - I want to see the rate sheet. If there is someone out there doing bad business I will be the first one to step up; but if it is a customer not wanting to pay what is owed - I will support the other side. |
| ask |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:03:38 04/01/2007 ask the place where she rented stalls why they charged her $500, she billed him $750, $1000, $1500 and then I hear she stiffed where she rented. So she collected stalls fees and bounced checks and did NOT pay the barn owner Some of you are missing the point. She collected day care, stall fees, billed him for prepurchases NEVER done for him, etc and POCKETED the fees never giving them to the grooms, stall owner, etc Think like this; She had 4 investors with 4 horses. Each billed $3500 or so per month OFF season with shoing bills and vet bills that she never paid the provider. Because she was trying to hide her status they were IN her name so guess what, she owes the bills She did the same thing to a guy in NC and found herself arrested and in jail She took money for a horse sold and never paid the horse owner until the horse owner put her in jail and even then, got 1/2 of what was owed She allegedly bought a horse from alexgerding in Ocala, paid him 1/2 the amount, making monthly payments but NEVER paid the remaining $15,000 and sold the horse keeping the money....so Alex is out $15,000 and the horse and someone is out there showing HIS horse Ask Peter at Wellington Deli where his $10,000 is that she took from him many years ago She sold a horse to a local person and KEPT The money claiming she didnt know what person to pay...IT WAS HER INVESTOR BUT THANKFULLY THE HORSES ARE NICE AND WITH EXPENDING MONEY HE DID NOT KNOW hE NEEDED TO SPEND THEY WILL GET SOLD.....HE WILL LOSE PLENTY IN THE LONG RUN Look at the depo, she claims Jimmy Torano was her ONLY competitor and he was greedy and impersonable....why would she drag him into this again it was just meant to advise to be careful |
| SS |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:05:05 04/01/2007 Back to the comment that she took $30K from her last business partner - did he go after her? Is that the referenced suit mentioned? Unbelievable |
| Sick & Tired |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:06:26 04/01/2007 Those monthly board rates were for OFF SEASON, not SEASON! As we all know, $1,500/month during season is a bargain, this was not the case! |
| Sick & Tired |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:06:30 04/01/2007 Those monthly board rates were for OFF SEASON, not SEASON! As we all know, $1,500/month during season is a bargain, this was not the case! |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:07:45 04/01/2007 Just trying to make fair judgement here. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:13:17 04/01/2007 I'm not sure the spreadsheets she used for her "business plan" are part of public record or anything that Marc has posted. There is so much info here that we would love to share, but simply cannot YET. I understand wanting to see both sides of any story (or 3 sides) as I tend to be that way myself, but if you knew all the details in this case you would have no hesitation in placing blame. |
| anoymous |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:13:30 04/01/2007 Marc was not charged $1500 per month for off season stalls - ask him to see his bills. It was half of that! There is a reason those are not posted on the website! |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:21:04 04/01/2007 Alright Marc - where are those bills? What was the offseason rate? |
| meg |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:25:23 04/01/2007 shoshannna and heather have been friends for years,I know them both.they have been in business together and shoshanna has always been supportive of her.I am sure shoshanna is extremely embarrassed by her friend but the fact is she knows her really well,and she knew that heather was untrustworthy.Shoshanna knew what heather was about and she allowed her to deal out of the barn.period.I am suprised shoshanna let this happen,but she needs to be more careful.I had a horse with her last winter,and I worked with her for 6 months. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:32:41 04/01/2007 one last time!!! congrats to you ms. petrano and all of your supposed connections and accolades. all of your name dropping is fascinating. of course i have heard of ronnie mutch, louise serio and have always liked maryanne steiert charles as a rider, it is you who i never heard of and probably never would have had you not incessantly posted on here. (well maybe i shouldnt talk since i put my 2 cents in repeatedly) obviously no one gets the irony of the "heather123@yahoo.com" i am not heather, or named heather DUH!!! call me a coward or what have you but since no one else needs to identify (except petrano) why should i??? and i don't know who annie oakley is either that petrano thinks i ride with. there is a professional here named ali oakley maybe you are confusing her and the legendary gunslinger however i dont know her personally. i do believe this poor guy was scammed especially when one reads the WHOLE story. all of us in the biz know it's very expensive esp here during circuit. any of us in the biz knows you really dont make money, horses are a large expense and one thinks we do it for the love of the animal. if anyone reads all of this they will understand how he was scammed. have nothing to gain by this it started as me agreeing and bc i have had experience with heather and i know she is no good. i never had a business dealing with her i know of many things she has done which have come straight from the source going back years ago. it is hard enough to work in this business and people like her make it even more difficult. this is really it for me. i just had to add it in once more. enjoy!!!! |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:36:05 04/01/2007 I have read the story, but am still finding the scam hard. The horse got hurt - she did not overcharge him - from what I can tell at this point in time - again, where is the scam - I am waiting to hear it so I can cheer him on. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:45:16 04/01/2007 Just to cite one clear point: She was neglectful in her duties as "agent" for him. She chose 2 horses for him without doing pre-purchase exams (even though she charged him for them). She failed to do her due diligence on his behalf. These were 8 and 9 year olds with no show records that he paid $75k a piece for. She also gave him false expectations as to his potential for return on his investments. |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:55:19 04/01/2007 Pre-purchase - Maybe not the smartest move around, but you people are ready to throw her behind bars. I guess it is a lot easier to lay blame then do some self reflection. He said the horses are insured though - right? I insure with Kilkenny and they require a vet approval before they will write coverage. $75K for horses out of Europe - of course they have no show record; Marc had to have known that - he was told the horses were coming out of quarantine. Come on people - READ. I would have to see the horses to comment on the false expectations but the photos sure look nice. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:57:02 04/01/2007 i am going to have to side with JB on this one. The more questions raised the less sketchy it sounds. I still want to know about the truck? and the bills? I am fascinated. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:03:07 04/01/2007 Funny, Heather kept saying the same thing in her depo (the insurance exam). We all know that an insurance exam is nothing like a pre-purchase exam. That's why the insurance exam was $50 (from memory) and an average pre-purchase exams typically costs between $1500 and $2000. |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:17:00 04/01/2007 Ok - I am no longer friends with Heather - just too much drama, but can tell you all one thing. She is a very hard worker and has never intentionally wronged anyone - if they are in fact wronged. She has not had two attorneys walk away; she hired the first attorney on Friday - my suggestion. As far as the man in NC is concerned - you really need to do a little digging to get to the truth with that. He wanted a piece of *** and didn't get it - don't give her grief for that! He left her in debt for horses she did not own and he never paid her for any care she provided for years on end. If you are going to publish this stuff - get it right! Alex Gerding has been paid a good bit of money. Heather has had some financial messiness due to Mr. NC leaving her high and dry with $100K in bills (have seen myself) so yes, Alex is owed some money - not $15K - try half. Peter at the deli - invested $10K in a project that lost $40K doing consignment horses. I told her it is a loss but she insists she pay him his $10K back. She has made a payment. Heather did sell a horse for an investor of hers. She did not claim to not know who to pay - he never provided her with business information. He provided personal information - the horse was owned by a business. She has an attorney sorting out those details now. The horse owner that was only paid half of what was owed - did she fail to tell you that she didn't even introduce herself to Heather until four months after the horse was sold. Did she tell you that a trainer sent the horse to Heather saying he owned the horse and accepted responsibility for the bills that he never paid? She again did not begrudge the lady getting paid for her horse - she never knew she was the owner. I know for a fact she pays her staff and pays them well actually - I helped her sort out her finances!! Did Marc tell you he signed a purchase agreement outlining the cost of each horse and agreed to pay for all expenses incurred? Did Marc tell you he collected an insurance check and still has not paid Palm Beach Equine for the services he collected the monies on? Did Marc not tell you that he came and took the horses without paying his bill of $25K??? I am probably speaking a little out of turn - I am trying to seperate myself, but these are not facts being printed here!! You should get your story straight first! |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:22:08 04/01/2007 I don't know how much an insurance exam cost - just know anytime a customer gets a new one that is the big thing. Without that the policy isn't written. I am pretty sure most prepurchases cost about $1500 though. |
| Surprised |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:25:55 04/01/2007 Boy oh boy, the plot thickens! |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:26:35 04/01/2007 By the way - Jimmy Torano was not meant any disrespect. The biz plan came from a model and he has thick skin. He knows he is good at what he does. Get real people! |
| meg |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:30:30 04/01/2007 shoshannna and heather have been friends for years,I know them both.they have been in business together and shoshanna has always been supportive of her.I am sure shoshanna is extremely embarrassed by her friend but the fact is she knows her really well,and she knew that heather was untrustworthy.Shoshanna knew what heather was about and she allowed her to deal out of the barn.period.I am suprised shoshanna let this happen,but she needs to be more careful.I had a horse with her last winter,and I worked with her for 6 months. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:30:43 04/01/2007 Well the plot certainly did thicken there! Told you 3 sides! |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:38:20 04/01/2007 I don't know - I think there is more to this than we are hearing. Hard to cast judgement at this time. I HATE when people stiff you on the bill! Had that happen to me before - nothing worse. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:40:35 04/01/2007 Yes, 3 sides, however, this 3rd side is primarily Heather's side- much of which comes from stories that Heather told this person and reasons that Heather could not pay this person the money she owes her. |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:51:18 04/01/2007 The information I provided are things I have seen with my own eyes; these are not opinions - these are facts that can be substantiated with paperwork. For example the amount of money owed to Alex Gerding - each payment made was done via wire transfer - there is a whole file outlining this. What is owed is ~$8K. As far as Mr. Gerding is concerned - I am sure he doesn't like it, but Heather was nothing but forthright with him about her financial messiness and why it was that way. His patience will pay off. He will get paid otherwise she would have tossed his name and his file a long time ago. What was stated in the email was based solely on paperwork!! Facts not made up fiction stories being told here today. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:52:28 04/01/2007 With all these authorities on the matter you would think someone would have seen the bills Heather gave to Marc. I want to know where are those? |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:54:32 04/01/2007 If I could attach the bills here - I would; Marc was billed $75 per day for care (the staff worked there for 6 months - HELLO they got paid) and the stall fee off season was $750. This included staff housing so overall not so bad. Not sure what all the complaining is about. |
| m |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:55:17 04/01/2007 the innocent bystander is shoshanna I believe |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:58:03 04/01/2007 All this about "the bills" has gotten blown way out of proportion. That is not the primary focus of this complaint. The majority of the complaint as I understand it is Heather not performing her duties in her role of agent for Marc. |
| m |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:02:51 04/01/2007 why do you continue to defend someone with such an unworthy character-Shoshanna do you think heather would do this for you?No chance.sorry.And you are so far in class infront of her,let it go and stop trying to justify. |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:03:16 04/01/2007 Hey Angela: thanks for spreading the word to all your friends. It's not just the horse industry, every indusry has it's cons. thanks again. Marc |
| . |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:04:09 04/01/2007 Heather has already attempted to throw Shoshanna under the bus on many occassions. |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:07:01 04/01/2007 I asked earlier what the big beef was because I was having a hard time understanding - that was how the bills came in. It is important if you put it out there like this. Her obligation as agent - I am sorry did she not try to sell the horses for Marc? I didn't get that from the reading. That was my point earlier - not sure how to decipher what all this is about. |
| so its acceptable |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:07:49 04/01/2007 Innocent bystander is for sure Shoshana... so it is acceptable for Heather to sell Alex's horse and KEEP the money...come on......stop defending this because that makes you no better Lets see what Peter says about his money, I am sure he will post tomorrow and he has NOT received his money |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:09:08 04/01/2007 I would like to hear about Heather throwing Shoshana under the bus - that would be a first. She walked away from Shoshana to keep her involvement to a minimum. Obviously I am not Shoshana. |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:13:19 04/01/2007 No it is not acceptable to keep someones money - hello that is why she continues to pay people on a monthly basis - when people actually pay her for services rendered! Peter has received a payment - I have a receipt here if you want to start throwing stones. I have copies of all those types of dealings for this very reason. Heather doesn't run around town telling everyone's business. She figures eventually the truth comes out - well I am here to set a few stories straight. Anyone with any interest - i have proof of these transactions. |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:13:43 04/01/2007 Al: just read the email file, that shows you ton of misrepresentations. And in the depositions, she said many things that she had advised me of, when I know for a fact that she did not. True, I can't prove that she's lying, BUT, I know for a fact that she did. That's why I am making that statement. She marked up the horses 10,000 each from the actual selling price, without notice to me and then represented to the seller that she was the buyer and had the bill of sale put in her name, which is not a legal name... should I continue? I would say that constitute fraud or a scam, wouldn't you? I know it's a lot to read. Perhaps everyone should read it all a second time to fully absorb all the facts. Marc |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:15:00 04/01/2007 Al: Read the complaint again, the bills you are referring to are attached Marc |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:18:47 04/01/2007 Marc, Correction there... the "Bills of Sale" that she fraudulently doctored up are attached to the complaint. Not the bills (for her services). |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:19:07 04/01/2007 Truthfully I read and reread it to try to understand. You state you were charged $1500 for off season stalls - how come those bills aren't on the site? Innocent bystander says no way - you were charged $750. So which is it? If she made $10K on each horse - did you somehow think she was doing this all for free? That would be like a realtor helping with a property investment and taking no commission. For trainers that is their livlihood. I have paid it many times. Once the bill of sales were issued to her - did she then issue you one? Do you have clear title to the horses? I read about her issues with changing her name - she isn't trying to hide that - how is that fraud or a scam? I am not defending her, just trying to understand here- |
| SS |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:21:13 04/01/2007 Fraudulently doctored - the bill of sales - i want to hear this. |
| meg |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:21:50 04/01/2007 I can't believe this!And I feel sorry for the legal minds that have to sort this mess out- |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:22:51 04/01/2007 So I am piecing this together - please let me know if this is correct: She had the horses bill of sales issued to her without the $10K. She then issued the bill of sales to you with the $10K? |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:23:24 04/01/2007 Look at the bills of sale attached to the complaint. Then read the 2nd part of deposition. She took the bills of sale from Aubrey Hill to her, changed the prices and made them from Aubrey Hill to Marc. She admitted to making changes in her depo. |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:25:01 04/01/2007 If her method of issuing the bill of sales is fraud - then the entire horse industry should be shut down tomorrow. The whole thing is a fraud - i thought that was a legitimate way to make a commission. If you can't do that - we should all be locked up! |
| SS |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:27:11 04/01/2007 I read that - i thought that just meant she used their document and made it her own. I do that all the time - especially with lease agreements. Those are all generic anyway. What is so fraudulent about that? The $10K commission? Marc needs to get over that - he is lucky it wasn't even the full 15% trainers are charging now. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:27:26 04/01/2007 JB - Are you saying that you can take a document signed by someone and white-out the portions you choose to, and put in your own info? You don't honestly believe that's okay, do you? |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:30:47 04/01/2007 SS - She had bills of sale from Aubrey Hill made to her in the amount of $65,000. She took those, whited out her name and the price, and wrote in Marc's name and $75,000 still signed by Aubrey Hill. Her version of this in her depo is how she "glosses over" everything. Half-truths. Just look at the documents on the complaint. |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:31:00 04/01/2007 No what I am saying is that when I find someone with a better lease agreement than I have myself; I will take it and put my info in there and start using that instead of what I had. Again most of these type of agreements you get online and fill in your info - how is this different? Maybe i am missing something? |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:33:31 04/01/2007 Oh Crap... My mistake. I am SO sorry.... I misread. She did NOT keep Michael Newman's signature. |
| SS |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:35:14 04/01/2007 No - I just went and looked again - there are purchase agreements entered into between Marc and Heather; and there are Bill of Sales to Heather for $65K. There is no documentation of Heather "whiting out her name and the price and writing in Marc's". There is nothing with Marc's name on it that is signed by Aubrey Hill. That is the problem here - a lot of misinformation. Now I see where JB is coming from. |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:39:41 04/01/2007 I don't know that I defending her, but for sure trying to defend the business. |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:42:26 04/01/2007 Then i don't think that is fraud - she made it her own. Again if this is bad behavior - I would have to line up with 150 of my closest friends and associates. |
| shocking |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:44:19 04/01/2007 Let the lawyers sort it out I think only Mary Katherine will understand this You cannot take someone's money for an investment, buy a horse with HIS money in YOUR name and tack on a $10,000 commission. Heather did not use her money to buy these horses and then turn around and sell them to Marc. If the commission was no big deal then why didn't she just get the 10% paid by the seller and have a bill of sale to Marc for the proper amount....because she was hiding what she was doing she can;t have it both ways she was an a/o buying horses outside her abilities yes those of you paying more etc are playing in a much bigger league with trainers and professionals that have paid their dues and are worth their weight in gold That is NOT what we have here....we have someone playing professional that is not one..... |
| SS |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:44:35 04/01/2007 I would have to side with JB on this issue. My current rental agreement came from Office Depot - I am sure 100 other people at least have the same one. I don't think that constitutes fraud. What I got from the reading was the horses got hurt - you stated they are now fine - what is the problem? |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:49:33 04/01/2007 We can let the lawyers sort it out, but if you don't want scrutiny and questions then don't put it out there for the public. You are correct she is not a big league professional, but I think that was her point all along. She was an amateur. I looked it up - she didn't become a professional until January - after he did all of this. You can't claim fraud on someone that isn't even a professional. I am not condoning how she made the commission, but she was more than entitled to it so like SS said - what is the problem? |
| AL |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:54:31 04/01/2007 As I understood it - she didn't take his money. The money did not go through her; it went straight to Newmans. This is why trainers usually take the money themselves I guess - so they aren't hassled like this. |
| SS |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:55:45 04/01/2007 what did you mean buying horses outside her abilities? |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:00:35 04/01/2007 I would like to get to the bottom of this. Is this a situation where a newby stuck her neck out and it isn't panning out perfectly or did she really intentionally take advantage? I guess I am from the time where people like our olympians make $1M commissions, and people committing insurance fraud by killing horses - still running business' today - this seems like someone with their nickers in a knot! |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:11:24 04/01/2007 To on the flip: Heather offered Marc a way out of the horses. She offered him every penny he spent plus $25K on top. Of course it wasn't all at once - if she had that kind of cash she wouldn't need to have investors. The horses were insured from day one. Heather was willing to take on all the expenses of both horses plus pay Marc to secure getting all of his money back. Now it is out of her hands. He is on a fishing expedition. When Heather told me he got the money from "his old lady" and she didn't know about the horses - I knew she was in for some real trouble. This guy had $150K to his name and no job and bought horses with his money. The horses are nice no doubt but it is a sales business - it takes time. I have seen the spreadsheets given to Marc - they outlined all of the expenses for 6 months for Silco and at least 4 months for Flemming - I don't think he ever read it - or at least is choosing not to remember it. It is ok though- it was part of the emailing so her attorney has copies. If anything, Heather billed under the estimated budget. She did her agent duties and pushed the sales of those horses. I am not sure what else he wanted her to do other than be a miracle worker and make both horses sound instantly. Hell, if she could do that - she would be the richest person on earth!! |
| SS |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:17:00 04/01/2007 If someone could use my $75K for 30 days and double my money - for sure - who wouldn't do that? If it were that easy why would any of us need customers? Come on Marc - use your head - stop being so angry at everyone other than yourself! No one held a gun to your head to buy those horses. Investments = no guarantee. We bought real estate 10 years ago in an "up and coming" development. Well it never "up and came". We sat on it long enough to break even, but at one point we were upside down and paying upkeep and taxes. We didn't go out and sue someone because we made a bad choice. The more I think about this the more this gives meaning to frivalous! |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:17:51 04/01/2007 To Sick and Tired: How did Heather scam Shoshana? |
| sssss |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:37:12 04/01/2007 It does not appear Marc is angry but rather worried that someone else may get caught up in the scheme look at what she says: top 25 in the Maclay finals in 1995" she had a stop and never made it around the course...we were there we know Went to indoors....no she rode Elenor in one class at Washington and again had a stop and never finished the course the point is she did not and does not have the expertise or experience to play with the big guys perhaps she was someone who tried to play and missed along the way...but that does not excuse her history by the way...has anyone met her husband Jacob Williams? Innocent bystander certainly must have |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:55:21 04/01/2007 yes, I have met Jacob - he was here last weekend as a matter of fact. As you can see from her deposition- she has not been officially married here in the US, but he stands by her side through all of this. I thought she made the cut at the regionals; and yes "eleanor" spooked and stopped at the finals, but did make it around. She did not compete Eleanor at Washington - again get your story straight. All she responded to was have you ever competed . . . and the answer was yes, she qualified and competed at Washington. |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:57:22 04/01/2007 Given the history at that barn - I am surprised she remembers anything at all. What a terrible environment to grow up in. |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:10:56 04/01/2007 OK, One last time. First, I would bet my butt that innocent bystander is Heather, trying to defend herself. Pretty pathetic Heather. Now, forget the bills, I will post them in time. August stalls was $1000. Sept & Oct were $750 and November on was $1500. That is ot the main point of the complaint. I understand however that her cost was only $500. Heather posted an ad seeking investors, I DID NOT come to her looking for an agent or a trainer. She represented that she needed money to buy horses for her customers that she could not afford. She represented that she had immediate buyers for these horses and that she needed 30 days for them to acclimate to the US, and for her to fatten them up, train them and ready them for sale. (it's al inthe emails) It was understood that we were partnering in a venture where I would pay for the horses and all expenses and that she would make a 10% commission when she SOLD the horses. I also understood expenses to be at cost. She marked up everything... Understand that I WAS NOT a retail mark, bringing his horses for daycare I paid for the horses by wire transfer to Newman where I was led to believe that I was buying the horses at cost. She NEVER mentioned to me that she was marking up the horses 10,000 each. I don't care how you cut it or whether you understand or not, IT'S FRAUD. Sure she is entitled to her commission, when she SELLS the horses. She is NOT entitle to skim $10,000 off of each horse, of my money. Capish! She charged me $1281.00 for pre purchase vetting that was never done. She bought me horses @$75,000 each sight unseen in a sense (without a vet exam) that is MORE FRAUD, don't care how you cut it. Forget about the bills of sale. It's simple. Newman sent her bills of sale for $65,000 for each horses. She took those bills from Newman and made her own version (no big deal) but she made bills out to me for $75,000 per horse. So forget it! It's the same thing she was reselling me my horses that I had paid for, for $10,000 more. HELLO! It does not work that way. Those horses were not hers to sell to me at a $10,000 profit. Capish? Sure she offered to buy me out, costs plus $25,000. With nothing down, no collateral, to be paid over a 3 year period at 0% interest.... HELLO!!! this is a person that as someone said "doesn't have a pot to piss in" is bouncing checks all over the place, not paying her bills... what IDIOT would accept that offer. Guys, wake up. there are a lot more people agreeing that she is a con, than an angel! As they say, a 1000 flies on a pile of doo, can't be all wrong!. You want to be skeptical, be my guess, but please read all the facts before jumping to conclusion. I'm saying that she IS a con artist,(a very good one at that) and that she RIPPED me OFF. You want to do business with her be my guess! Marc |
| Enough |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:27:20 04/01/2007 Innocent bystander? Heather is that you? Who else would have all of this information? |
| BS |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:57:21 04/01/2007 Do you have the horses up for sale now??? How much????? |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:09:23 04/01/2007 Hi: Yes they are. Send me a contact number (your email link did not work) I'll have the trainer contact you with details thanks |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:19:24 04/01/2007 I am def. not Heather. I would have kicked your butt to the curb the first second you couldn't pay your bill back in November. I helped Heather go over all this paperwork and divulge a plan - therefore I have seen it all and have copies of everything - just in case. Marc - those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. I seem to remember reveiwing a bank statement that showed where you bounced a check of your own to Heather. Hello - if you paid your bill - money that you owe - she would not have bounced any checks! The horses were not bought sight unseen - hello you saw them before you paid for them - get real Marc. I can only imagine what you look like, but idiot comes to mind. I see a lot of "bitching" from other people, but where has anyone made any legal claim against Heather. Look at Mr. NC - he dropped it because he didn't have a leg to stand on. It is easy to talk the talk, but no one else if putting up the money to go after anything because there is no wrong doing. This is all just gossip and hearsay. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:22:42 04/01/2007 Seems to me that she did an aweful lot of check bouncing before Marc ever came into the picture. |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:24:01 04/01/2007 I was a friend of Heather's. I know all of this because I was asked for advice regarding these matters. Once we started to delve into it - I began to help clean up and organize some of the finances. It was amazing to me how many things she paid for for other peoples horses. I have spent hundreds of hours going over all of this and steering her in the right direction and helping her find appropriate legal counsel. Maybe this will end ALL of it once and for all!!! That is the main goal at hand - many of you will be receiving phone calls from her attorney. |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:26:40 04/01/2007 Yes, she has had some financial messiness - again that is how I became involved. That still doesn't diminish the weight of Marc bouncing a check. If it is wrong for Heather, then it is wrong for Marc. There will be no more check bouncing for Heather - I handle the books now. |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:32:25 04/01/2007 I have a feeling - since my topics were not addressed - there is a lot more to this than what can be read right here and on Marc's website. You guys are real gems. You tip toe around any pertinent question an outsider might ask and only go for the gossip angle. I thought you had a legitimate complaint. Guess it is like they say - you can sue anyone for anything now a days. |
| Sick & Tired |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:34:17 04/01/2007 I agree 110% that Innocent Bystander is Heather, she knows way too much information, is assaulting everyone who says anything negative about Heather and immediately jumps to Heather's defense. Yes Heather, we know it is you. Just look at the way she talks, the phrases are Heather all over! Get a life Heather, the jig is up you crook! Yes, I do know you. I know you are a liar, con artist and a thief. You are a very smooth talker and have perfected your scamming technique to a fine art, which is amazing for someone so young. God knows what you'll be like in later life. You remind me of the little girl in the movie THE BAD SEED. I wonder what your family thinks of their darling little Heather? |
| Mom |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:42:59 04/01/2007 This is Shoshana's mom and I am writing on Shoshana's behalf regarding this discussion on the Wellington Scammer. Shoshana has been advised by her attorney not to post any comments at this time. We have been scammed by Heather too. She puts on all of this Southern charm and then stabs the well-meaning person in the back. Shoshana met Heather about 2 years ago and since that time, Heather has cost me a lot of money, headaches, and heartache for my daughter. They went to a horse show in PA and shared the expense of a hotel room. Shoshana charged the room to her account and left a few days before Heather. Heather then reimbursed Shoshana for her share of the expenses, but the check bounced. Also, Heather's credit card would not work to pay the balance for her extra days, and the management decided to use Shoshana's card for the balance. We have never been repaid with a valid check for this extra expense. As a "friend", during the quiet part of the summer, Shoshana let Heather stay at our house. Heather kept saying that she would pay some rent, but we have never seen any money. Hence, Heather used our electricity, our water, and our extra computer. At least she dog sat when Shoshana went out of town. Heather also had the chutzpah to use our address as her own and also listing it as her legal address, without our permission. She told customers that our address was her place! For her horses, she was charged stall rent. Unfortunately for us, those checks bounced too. At least she paid for her own feed, bedding, etc. On a personal note, Heather has never said thank you to me or my husband for allowing her to stay in our house. Nor has she thanked us when we included her at dinner times. I resent the emotional strain that this whole situation has placed on our family, especially Shoshana. At this point, Heather has cost us money and we just want her out of our lives. |
| Enough |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:57:09 04/01/2007 Hey Innocent Bystander. If you are not Heather how are you coming up with all this information? It seems strange that a con artist would invite someone into their bank accounts. Who is Mr. NC I don't see that anywhere in the depos. |
| here from Ward |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:58:38 04/01/2007 sorry to be so vague - I have been scammed once before. I would be interested in a loan or an investment situation. "Ms. Ward" wrote: ok can I have detailed information on the opportunity.Is it a loan or an opportunity ,I am interested and am a US citizen . ----- Original Message ---- From: Heather Williams To: Ms. Ward Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 12:33:30 PM Subject: Re: This is a business opportunity. I would like to know what fees are associated with your programs "Ms. Ward" wrote: I have no intentions of scamming you or no one else ,I am a christian and don't even remeber what this was for so please reply with destils and I will ablidge Thanks and God Bless ----- Original Message ---- From: Heather Williams To: Ms. Ward Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:35:00 AM Subject: Re: I have gotten a lot of responses from people in Nigeria - scams - can you please be more specific? "Ms. Ward" wrote: My terms are based on the critiria in which you present ----- Original Message ---- From: Heather Williams To: Ms. Ward Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 9:59:24 PM Subject: Re: What are your terms? "Ms. Ward" wrote: I AM INTERESTED G Equestrian Business: The town of Wellington is an upscale equestrian-based community in Palm Beach County, Florida. From the annual Horse show to its beautiful and spacious horse farms, the area has established itself as one of the country’s most exceptional horse communities, one that will see $100 to $200 million sunk into the development of its existing horse show grounds, over the next three to five years. For more than twenty years, I have worked within the “Show Jumping” category of the horse industry, establishing a name amongst the industry’s elite players. For the last ten years, I has invested my own finances and developed a thriving, wellrespected business, training and developing horses for owners with exceptional returns. Over the course of three to six months, a raw animal can be transformed into a prized possession, and in the process increase the horses’ value by 50 to 100 percent for its owner. I am able to accomplish this due to the innate ability to see the potential in the horses acquired for development and training. Currently, five to twelve horses are developed and sold annually. The goal is to provide Griffon Gate Farms with the necessary resources to expand the business, ultimately increasing the volume of sales and profitability. A horse purchased for $75,000 can be trained and turned out for sale three to six months later for a minimum of $150,000. Summary: This is a growing business entity looking for working capital to expand the inventory. To date, the orders placed with the farm far exceed the current inventory. Griffon Gate Farm needs the use of $500,000 to $1,000,000. I look forward to hearing from you. Please feel free to call me at any time. (cell) 561- 847-5062 Regards, Heather Griffon Gate Farm llc 13833 Wellington Trace . E-4 #446 . Wellington, Florida 33414 (561) 847-5062 |
| thank you |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:01:15 04/01/2007 Dear Mom: Thank you for your well thought out response. Your daughter is a lovely individual with a kind heart and she should not be faulted for trying to help someone less fortunate for her. Thank you for setting the record straight |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:03:17 04/01/2007 Well said, "Mom". If Heather didn't feel badly before, she definitely should now. Sounds like you opened your home and heart to her and she did nothing but repay you with heartache and headaches. |
| Sick & Tired |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:13:51 04/01/2007 "Mom" is a wonderful lady as is her daughter Shoshana. These two people are kindest most generous people you could ever meet, which unfortunately, makes them easy prey for the likes of Heather. "Interested Party", you are giving Heather too much credit, this girl doesn't have a clue as to what proper etiquette and protocol is, and certainly doesn't have the ability to "feel bad". |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:16:09 04/01/2007 Thanks mom, now folks can see it in black & white... I was also advised not to post any more comments on this board by my atty. So, I will be looking, but no more posting. You will have to check my site for updates. There's a lot more to come! Also, yes I did bounce a check to Heather. I closed a CD that had matured on a friday, but the cd transfer to my checking account was not finalized until the following Teusday morning. It was an honest error, not even on my part, that money was in the bank in a CD. I assumed it would be clear right away. I did withdraw the funds and deposited the amount in Heather account in cash. OOPS! she forgot to mention that! Guess she not monitoring those books as well as she puts on. I don't bounce checks! OK, folks, I very much appreciate all of your support, I must sing off for now. thanks again, keep checking the site for updates Marc |
| lock'er up! |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:23:00 04/01/2007 Paleeeze! She needs to get suspended at the very least, but being someone's bitch in prison would do her some good! Anyone who has dealt with her can verify that she's a nightmare. |
| old school |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 1 replies)
Posted At 23:10:38 04/01/2007 I have unfortunately known heather for a long time. I know MANY people that she owes money from years ago and has either never made a payment, continuously bounced checks, or paid some money to but never finished paying. In each and every case the owners of the horses, who I also know and know are good, honest people, paid their monthly bills to heather for things like board/stall rental, shoeing, vets bills, etc...and naturally expected for the bills to be paid to the providers of the services. They have since realized that many of the service providers were never paid, or never finished being paid. What did she do with all the money she was given to pay bills for those horses???!!! The MOST IMPORTANT issue here is that heather has a history of this kind of behavior, and if nothing else comes of this other than people in the horse community being aware of the threat that is heather hargett/williams, and making a point to stay far away from her, than I say YOU GO MARC BUCK!!!! |
| Sick & Tired |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 23:18:11 04/01/2007 I have been wondering the same thing, where did all this money go? She doesn't live an extravagant lifestyle so where is it, unless she has it put away someplace. By the way, there is no Jacob Williams; she doesn't have a husband or boyfriend that too is a lie. |
| old school |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 23:29:11 04/01/2007 it would not surprise me in the least, but how do you know there is no jacob williams? |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 01:15:53 04/02/2007 ok had to look again i will admit i am still intrigued. i LOVE the comment about her north carolina client wanting a piece of a$%. if ANYONE HAS LAID EYES ON THIS GIRL THEY WOULD KNOW THAT NO MAN IN HIS RIGHT MIND WOULD EVER WANT HER!!!!! |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 07:10:53 04/02/2007 Again - no I am not Heather. Her attorney has advised her to keep her mouth shut and let it all come out in court. Mom - I do have a question for you. I think your family is wonderful, but if last summer was so bad with Heather and she never paid anything to Shoshana for rent then why continue letting her stay and go to Europe and all? I have seen checks that cleared to Buttonwood Street for stalls and all. She def. still owes Shoshana money, but with this kind of thinking - why should she even try to figure out how to pay her back. Why not just move on? With everyone dumping on her she should file bankruptcy and start over. That is what she was trying to do to begin with. She did not scam Marc Buck. She absorbed the cost of his horses anyway she could for 2 months because he could not afford it. He has already stated they are nice valuable horses - she didn't buy him bad horses. She offered him a viable way out of those horses and now she is getting totally burned - again! I don't know why she ever bothered with all of you people. She loves the horses and puts up with all of this **** to have them in her life. As far as what she does with the money - hello she has never taken anything from anyone! That is why she doesn't have any - and no she doesn't live an extravagent life. She works really hard and that is about it. No wonder she doesn't trust people anymore. You people are making me question why I do. |
| old school |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 07:31:32 04/02/2007 okay, pretty cut and dry here...let's think about this again. i don't know much about her current situations/messes, but she was given thousands upon thousands of dollars in the past to pay bills for horses that she had in her care. those service providers were NEVER fully paid...some of them not paid AT ALL...to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars collectively!!! so again i ask, where did that money go?! as for shoshana, i don't know her, but i feel sure she kept allowing heather in because she THOUGHT she was her friend and felt sorry for her. heather has an AMAZING way of making everyone think she is the little victim...exactly the same thing she did to SEVERAL of those of us from her past that she's written off because we finally saw who she truly is. |
| Sick & Tired |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 07:36:29 04/02/2007 Heather, you know way too much about everything. First of all we all know that the only friend Heather ever had was Shoshana, and that is only because she felt sorry for you. You are the lowest of the low. You are so stupid that you keep posting very personal information that only Heather would know. Heather if you were qualified for anything, I would say get a job, but you couldn't even be a cashier at a McDonald’s because you would rob them blind! Maybe what you should do is start mucking your way to everyone’s stall to try to pay back. Heather why don’t you get in that white pickup truck, that is if you still have it, and drive, drive, drive. |
| old school |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 07:51:57 04/02/2007 sorry sick and tired...i'm pretty sure heather has one last friend up her sleeve from childhood who would know all this stuff. although, i'm not real sure why she would hang around after all the bad heather has done???!!! |
| Leaky Houseboat |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 09:11:26 04/02/2007 Mary Day said "there are those of us who won more of a show record than she has AND graduated law school, who know better." and "I am very good at what I do. My show record speaks for itself." Yes, your show record was impressive...over 30 years ago. What exactly have you done since? I hardly think that qualifies you to speak as an expert today. Right now you pontificate on the internet and you are not very good at it- more annoying than anything else. And you may have graduated from law school (which takes 3 years, not 4)- but the last I checked, you were not licensed by the Florida bar association. So without passing a bar exam, can you really call yourself a lawyer? Certainly not a very talented or knowledgeable one, I'd think. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 09:18:08 04/02/2007 So... it just occurred to me that "Innocent Bystander" must be Heather's old friend, Nikki Stokes. Nikki, who works at Palm Beach Equine, who, for some reason let Heather rack up big bills at the clinic, under an assumed name with horses that she claimed were hers, even though Nikki knew they weren't. Especially since, she was allegedly the insurance agent for the policies that covered the horses. Marc didn't know until well after the fact that his horses were racking up huge bills for elective treatments. Heather chose to keep him in the dark. This is clearly how she knew Marc received an insurance check, which, incidently applies to charges for long before Palm Beach Equine's bills. So, why did she not advise her employer that she knew Heather from years before and knew of the "bad times in N.C." and her poor payment history? From what I understand, Heather's large bill with Palm Beach Equine is related to many horses in her care, not just Mr. Buck's horses. |
| lock 'er up! |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 09:37:14 04/02/2007 Maybe the discovery should ask more questions regarding Heather's personal relationships. It would surely say a lot about her character. Why does her current trainer continue to help her? How about past trainers, empoyers and boyfriends? Who exactly did she have personal relationsihps with? Even though she's hideous..... ask more about that. It could get ugly. |
| BS |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:04:40 04/02/2007 Can I email you at your email link provided about the horses? |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:16:05 04/02/2007 Hey BS: Yes, just click on my name. |
| BS |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:28:13 04/02/2007 OK I emailed you! |
| Mere |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 11:08:33 04/02/2007 Marc, I'm so sorry this happened to you. It's losers like Heather "whatever I decide my last name to be at the appropriate time", that ruin a good thing for the honest horse people that want to live their dream. My God, I would LOVE to have someone help me out with my dream and be able to pay them back much more! Unfortunately I'm a nobody and no one would help me so I eat alot of peanut and jelly and put all my $ into my horses and showing. To have a sponsor would be a dream come true and idiots like Heather ruin it for us. Sorry that happened to you. If I could help in any way, I would or WILL! Just ask! I'd love to be able to help put this FRAUD behind bars FOREVER! How does anyone associate with her? How? |
| Angela |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 12:38:06 04/02/2007 Mom, So sorry you and Shoshana got stuck in the middle of this. For those that don't understand how Heather is in the wrong, hopefully, after reading your post they do understand how she has frauded you and others. I think some of you may need to check your moral compass if you continue questioning what is going on. Angela |
| Witheld |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 13:26:20 04/02/2007 THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF COMPLAINING, CRYING, AND BULL S)*&&*() GOING ON HERE, WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE TAKE THE ENERGY AND TIME AND INVEST IT IN A WORTHY CAUSE, LIKE A HORSE RESCUE LEAGUE, HOMELESS SHELTER ASSISTANCE, HORSE RETIREMENT FUND OR EVEN WRITING TO OUR TROOPS IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN? USE YOUR TALENTS AND TIME FOR SOMETHING WORTHY AND ONE THAT WILL HAVE LASTING RESULTS....LOOK AT THE BIG PICTURE!!!LET MARC FIGHT HIS ONW BATTLES, THIS POST IS GETTING ABSURD. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:06:29 04/02/2007 yeh you say look at the big picture yet you took the time to post your 2 cents!!! and good for you "leaky houseboat" for calling out that supposed "brilliant" rider (even though apparently no one on here has ever heard of her) i mean rider/lawyer person extraordinaire. even though as you say you can not find her on the bar roster. it is amazing where loyalties will take people. so maybe innocent bystander really is a friend of hargett well she clearly has some bizarre attachment to her cause.AND did anyone consider the fact that her client from nc (who supposedly wanted her... god get the barf bag) is a wealthy man and he felt sorry for her and he wanted to set her up and help her just to be nice and she screwed it up. this guy managed to get his horses back bc someone i know personally had to find them and repo them a few of the horses were picked up after her arrest in annville, penn area which i think is the first time she got her pair of "metal bracelets". he then went on to write the whole thing off bc he could afford to look the other way and say forget it. but there are people out there who can not afford to drop a few hundred thousand and not miss it. and so what if marc buck bounced a check there is a lot of proof that she already snookered him for all he had.you think he is the first person who ever bounced a check i loved that comment from innocent who said "i would have kicked your butt to the curb" yeah after stealing a couple hundred grand from a guy and charging him up the ass for day money i would be mad too she was prob just jealous that he beat her to the punch on that one. the reason i think she has gotten away with this so far is bc some of these wealthier people just didnt feel the need to pursue a lost cause (ie collecting a penny from someone who doesnt have any money) and in this case mr buck has been screwed 6 ways from sunday as they say and he is going to see justice is served. she deserves it as far as i am concerned i mean come on people there is so much stacked against this girl. there is another pending lawsuit and i am sure more to come. i am hard pressed to think that if she is this damsel in distress who just happened to screw up that people would be coming out of the woodwork to say their piece. and back to witheld marc is fighting his own battle and also letting people know what they should know. we are just confirming what a lot of people may not know and need to know about this sociopathic, pathological freak. |
| * |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:54:08 04/02/2007 Amen! |
| Viv |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:32:58 04/02/2007 What is the trial date again? I definately want to be there to watch the show, I'm sure it will be a packed house! Hey, I think we are going to break a record with the number of posts here. By the way, I still haven't heard an answer as to where all the money went, does anyone know? What happened witht the NC guy? |
| Mere |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:08:45 04/02/2007 Ditto to Cheney!!! |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:11:58 04/02/2007 not sure if a trial date has been set but am sure we will all find it out when the time comes. i dont stay here all year which is a shame bc i would love to see this. by the way since it keeps coming from numerous people in regard to whether she scammed the guy or merely took a standard commission i am not sure if you know but taking commission over a certain percentage is considered racketeering.also for all the rocket scientist horse people who double the price to their client etc, if you receive a check from your client when you act as agent and you do not own that horse (which most dont)that is totally illegal and there was a case right here in south fl where a few trainers thought they were being slick well when the truth came out their check to purchase the horse they were agenting had not cleared prior to them accepting payment and they were liable for all charges. i think she told him in a roundabout way that since this was such a good chance she was not making a commission i am sure as a business minded person he would even have understood had she said she received commissions. the scary thing is i think the money went to bs. keeping horses costs a lot but if she has bounced all over the place for all these services then maybe there is some laying around but i doubt it. if she was smart enough to keep some of the money one would hope she would have taken that cash and skipped the country.in regard to the nc guy as i said before he had a shipper pick up the "investment" horses that she had and i think he threw his hands up and said forget it. (lk at post a few up) sad but true. her days are numbered maybe when she gets outta the clink she can re invent herself like madonna. the strangest part is how she continues to post for investors!!! one can be so anon online but after awhile people catch on...... hope she is ready for cell block 8. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:29:31 04/02/2007 mere i hope that you realize your dream. at least you admit you arent a big pro at this time. there are people who have worked their way up. (margie) and there are people who try to take a short cut or steal like the girl. but i am sure you can sleep at night knowing you are as you say eating pb and j and working. i dont know where you ride but there are still big pros that try to help young people trying to make a go of it. obvi this has nothing to do with the girl but in a way it really does bc you point out what other people say which is how many trainers and riders with some real talent could have put that money to good use. im sure mr buck would have re invested had he the chance to make some and actually let a rider develop more horses. he will never do it again unless he is insane.god what an introduction to the horse business!!!!! |
| Mr. N C |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:40:08 04/02/2007 I guess its my turn.Yes she did steal a $30,000 lease payment,she also defaulted in a lease on a vehicle to the tune of $20,000plus.I paid every bill she sent me until I asked her to bring my horses home to me,she refused.I honored the lease & retrieved that horse.I sent the repo man after the other one.Ipursued her criminally with no success as she conveniently stayed clear of NC,to pursue her in civil court would only have increased my expense.I commend you Marc for staying after her.And Nikki I'll be glad to give you a list of corroborating individuals to validate the truth.I only wanted to give the girl a chance no one else would & she took supreme advantage as she has of the rest of you |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:48:33 04/02/2007 good for you mr nc. MANY know that you were only trying to cut her a break which obvi she didnt deserve in the end. if you scroll back one person posting said you wanted a "piece" which everyone who has half a brain knows is laughable and untrue. i mean she is pretty damn far from being elle mcpherson. i know everyone thinks my comments bout her looks are not necessary but when it is said that guys want her and thats why their deals went sour and or they were interested in her and thats why they invested PLEASE!!!! i know guys who have just gotten out of jail who wouldnt go near that thing. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:00:54 04/02/2007 ps where is the lawyer/rider/person extraordinaire??? ya know the one who was champion at indoors 32 years ago.....the same one no one on here had even heard of but her name dropping and star F%%%%%g was rather impressive. i guess after she got called out by that one person about not being on the bar roster in the state of fla.... oh i forgot she wants to know why i want to "fight" with everybody which i dont but now i remember she had to go and ride bc as she put it she has to ride she rides doesnt just talk. i will miss her....... |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:03:50 04/02/2007 ok alla ya enough hargett williams for me i have to go and have dinner with my friends who are visiting and dont want to spoil my appetite..... ENJOY!!!! |
| Saw Her |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:06:42 04/02/2007 I just saw her truck parked over at a barn in Saddle Trail, I guess that's where she's keeping her horses, or should I say horses that belong to her relatives! |
| Fat Farm |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:30:19 04/02/2007 Cheney, yes, she'd awfully repuslive. But, you'd be floored at who she's conned into more than business! You wouldn't eat dinner for a week! |
| come on |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:32:39 04/02/2007 oh, please! do elaborate! |
| Saw Her |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:44:45 04/02/2007 Who and what did she con? I know she is gross, but this "person" would have to be desperate if this what I think you are talking about. |
| see above |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:19:06 04/02/2007 did anyone read above posted by Ward where Heather says she has been in the hunter business 20 years and has established hersel as one of the ELITE PROFESSIONALS.....are you all seeing what she thinks of herself and presents herself to potential investors you HAVE to see it above I cant believe you all are not seeing this |
| Kasey |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:20:18 04/02/2007 It is obvious that Heather has screwed up and however this plays out in a court of law remains to be seen. Heather is not the first person to become "over zealous" with her business and will not be the last (especially in the horse industry). I wish Marc well in his quest for justice, but come on people, you are acting like a bunch of gossiping teenagers with a personal vendetta. Are all of you beauty queens and saints? Stick to the facts if you are going to comment on this subject. Who cares if someone saw her. Who cares what you think about her physical attributes or whether or not she can "get" a boyfriend. No offense, but this post has become more of a witch hunt (not only for Heather, but for everyone who has ever been associated with her) than anything else. You all need to grow up. |
| okay |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:36:50 04/02/2007 okay, but don't you think that after 10 to 15 years of screwing up with her "over zealous-ness" that she might need to take a look at herself and think, "huh...maybe i need to re-eveluate my life and get a job OUTSIDE of the horse industry to begin to re-pay the MANY people that i owe money to."? |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:47:19 04/02/2007 Well said Kasey!! The more "bitch-fighting" you do the better it gets for her! I still think if you all think about this - the commission - less than 15%; the horses - still noted as lovely and valuable; the walking out on the bill - You all might be doing a real injustice to the horse community fighting this. |
| Witch hunt or not.... |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:59:47 04/02/2007 IF you've never had a dealing with her, than you really can not understand the magnitude of the damage she can cause. She has caused so much harm, stress, torment and also monetary loss. She has no remorse. She can steal money from her closest friends and relatives with absolutely no remorse whatsoever. No, I'm not a beauty queen and probably far from a saint. However, I'm all in favor of her getting the book thrown at her. She's pure evil. |
| Well Said |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:12:55 04/02/2007 Amen! She has absolutely no loyalty to anyone but herself, and should never be allowed to take advantage of anyone ever again! |
| * |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:30:57 04/02/2007 OK Heather, the commission was unjust even if it was less than 15%, how valuable is "valuable" what are they worth? anywhere near $150K each? injustice? get real! More people say you're a fraud than not. And, rumour has it that your uncle, the city manager of Pompano also was taken, by investing in horses with you. Anybody know anything about that? the horse community needs to get rid of you. |
| thebill |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:32:23 04/02/2007 everyone keeps talking about the bills 1) she never paid the blacksmith so deduct that from the bill 2) she overcharged for stall rental by $750 so deduct that, and she bounced the cheks for the real 750 so deduct that 3) she never paid the vet bills so deduct that 4) she bounced the checks to the insurance company despite marc giving her the money so deduct that she has paid nothing for the one horse since the one left her care, she has refused to pay mark her portion for the horse still owes marc back $1800 for prepurchases she never obtained and admitted in her depo that she owes it so why not JB (who is Heather guys look at the wording and compare to the depositions) reissue the correct non fraudulent overpadding bills by the way deduct all the overcharging you did and you owe him |
| JB |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:35:10 04/02/2007 Wow - think again - not Heather. I started out on your side; just having a hard time muddling through all the shit. |
| Enjoying the vacation |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:22:18 04/02/2007 Heather is probably enjoying her financial gain and relaxing on a Caribbean island sipping margaritas and lounging in the sun while all of you are spitting venom here on this website. Come on girls, let it go and leave it to the lawyers, I find this whole pettiness really bizarre and a poor reflection of you all. I did start out feeling soory for the poor guy Marc but now I wonder if this is just an opportunity for him to rally his troops and defame and degrade this girl on a web site?? |
| * |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:39:43 04/02/2007 Caribbean island? sipping margaritas? lounging in the sun? How in the world did she pay for that? Bounced a check? sold somebody's horse? Collected expensive daycare & vet bills? Actually, it's a WAKE UP CALL and a rally to defame and degrade as well as put this girl out of commission. Don't feel sorry for Marc, he's not asking for pitty, just support to rid us of this parasite. |
| Heather Sighting |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:45:22 04/02/2007 I just saw her this afternoon at the Palm Beach International Airport getting ready to board a flight to the Bahamas. She said she was going on a 14 day Caribbean Cruise on a private yacht! |
| In her dreams! |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:53:19 04/02/2007 She only wishes! I'm with you *.......Marc doesn't want anyone to feel sorry for him, or to "rally his troops." He was just trying to warm others about her so that hopefully noone else gets scammed! She obviously has a long history of this type of thing, and Marc clearly said that now when people google her name they will see plenty of negative things about her so that future potential investors will think twice before sending her anything! |
| In her dreams! |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:54:52 04/02/2007 Sorry, "warn" others |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:08:28 04/02/2007 Interesting how her requests for money only go out to non-horsepeople via craigslist. Anyone who knows horses would see her lack of expertise in a minute. |
| Not entirely true |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:20:03 04/02/2007 That's only been a recent endeavor of hers. In the past she has unfortunately taken plenty from a lot of horse people who trusted her and believed in her as a rider, care-giver of the horses, and a friend. Many of these people had been grossly taken advantage of by other horse professionals, and she preyed upon that fact and her "supposed friendship" to get what she wanted at any cost. Over time they all came to find out that she did not deserve that trust. She's extremely manipulative, and could just about get a brick wall to buy her a horse! |
| see |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:21:12 04/02/2007 business plan is posted at his site interesting read |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:21:37 04/02/2007 im baaaack!!! and i want all of you to know that i am a supermodel, i have 2 phds and i met mother teresa before she died and said i am a candidate for sainthood and by the way i ride horses too!!! just kidding but for real if heather really is 29 was she a trainer at age 9 if she says she was in the business for 20 yrs??? or did she get a "child prodigy" jump on the rest of us? i am afraid not though i would think she started young to have rehearsed all of this so thoroughly. well yes maybe we all are being a bit gossipy but its really not gossip when ya look at the facts. sometimes the truth hurts. maybe if she just could face the facts that she is not cut out to play it on the straight and narrow and quit while she is ahead. we need to continue this as we have said and shall say again people like her give us horse people a bad name. she has GOT to go!!!!! off with her head!!!! |
| The Lady Doth Protest Too Much |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:36:26 04/02/2007 Just figured it out..."Cheney" must be an angry ex lover of Heather or maybe the jealous girl friend of Marc, can't figure out any other reason for all this hate, anger and public bad mouthing! It's now really a comedy just to read all her mud slinging! Comedy Central has come to WEF! |
| Wrestling Promoter |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:41:33 04/02/2007 Marc, why don't you sell tickets to have Cheney and Heather mud wrestle together you may be able to make enough money to cover your lawyers fees and have an extra buck or two to cover your feed bill?? |
| Surprised at the address! |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 00:30:40 04/03/2007 Just opened up the business plan and saw the address she used, my friend is going to be very interested to see that she is using HER address! The audacity of this scum, she NEVER lived in this house, in fact, I don’t think she ever stepped foot inside. All she did was rent two stalls for a couple of months from her. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 00:55:02 04/03/2007 haha no neither of the above but i must say the idea of a mud wrestling competition might be fun.(not really i dont much like getting dirty) i dont actually hate heather believe it or not. on one hand i almost feel sorry for her bc anyone that pathetic is in need of serious help. i dont know marc at all so no am definitely not an ex girlfriend and if i was jealous or mad at him or whatever why would i be posting on his side so to speak??? i am for sure not an ex of heather's for one i am not a lezzie. ( not that there is anything wrong with gay people). lets just say i am one of the handful of people who unfortunately over the past few yrs have had a practically front row seat to her circus. i never bought a horse from her or tried one though she did try to fast talk some nonsense to me about one she had and i was warned about her to begin with so i was already wary. i simply want to support the cause against her. do i actually care?? well i guess a bit since i write on this message board a lot. but in the big picture i could care less though as i stated before being in the business and having someone like her basically screw it up. ( not that she is the first crook in this business i mean come on the horse biz is filled with crooks but then again look at corporate america, tyco et al there are crooks everywhere) obviously i can not compare heather to the likes of the enron crowd but it is similar stockholders lost it all and this guy maybe has not lost it all but i am sure it has tied up a chunk of his money. i am happy to see people are coming forward to support the cause against not only her but others like her. imagine if this guy knew ahead of time that this girl was crooked maybe would have tried it with a legit pro. maybe some of you trainers on here should be grateful bc it only ensures that the word spreads and will possibly bring you some business. hate might be a bit strong but i definitely do not like the girl. |
| Due Dilligence |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 05:56:15 04/03/2007 If I remember correctly from reading the original story that Marc posted, he claimed that Heather represented that she owned the farm that he visited. It would have taken only a few minutes to verify if this was true or not from public records. Also, Heather alledgely writes bad checks and owes money all over town. If this is true, a credit check would have revealed this. Having read the e-mail file, I'm amazed at the speed of the decision to invest with a person that Marc didn't know and in a business that he claims to have known nothing about. Having said all of that, I read the first deposition and she has admitted to willfully violating USEF rules, especially concerning her amateur status. By her own admissions, she has lied for 11 years since she aged out of Juniors. Marc, she is still listed as a member of USEF in good standing as Heather Williams. You really need to forward a copy of the deposition to the USEF. |
| innocent bystander |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 06:12:11 04/03/2007 And no I am not Nikki - it would surprise most you who I actually am - kind of funny you can't guess. Thank you to Enjoying the Vacation - I will stick to the facts and not the pettiness. We will start here: 1) she never paid the blacksmith so deduct that from the bill - there was one bill not paid from August to the time the horses were picked up. That was the December shoeing and HELLO - he hadn't paid Heather in a month and wasn't going to do so. Now the matter has been resolved and the bill paid. She did not charge him for 5 months of shoeing and not pay the blacksmith's - hello why would they still shoe for her today? 2) she overcharged for stall rental by $750 so deduct that, and she bounced the cheks for the real 750 so deduct that - this also includes staff housing!! That has already been stated. Again - she did not have a problem with the check until Marc couldn't afford to pay his bill. Heather never signed on to feed and house Marc's horses. He signed a contract stating he would pay for the horses expenses. Did you want her to pull money out of her *** I suppose that is why Shoshana went on to be supportive of Heather long after the stall renting. 3) she never paid the vet bills so deduct that - SHE WAS NEVER PAID BY MARC FOR THE VET BILLS. WHY WOULD SHE PAY HIS VET BILLS? 4) she bounced the checks to the insurance company despite marc giving her the money so deduct that AGAIN - there are bank statements showing the horses insurance being paid for. As a matter of fact the last payment Heather made for the insurance was January 3, 2007 for $1005. This was a solid 6 weeks after Marc couldn't afford the bills on the horses. She didn't let his insurance fall behind so that his investment was protected. You people really need to get the FACTS straight. Heather has NEVER been asked to pay any bills since the horses were taken without the bill being paid. She has NEVER even seen a bill - they wouldn't tell her where the horse was until the day of the deposition! still owes marc back $1800 for prepurchases she never obtained and admitted in her depo that she owes it - look at the bill!!! (oh yeah he still hasn't posted those yet). That money went to pay the vets that worked on those horses. HE DIDN'T PAY THEM. so why not JB (who is Heather guys look at the wording and compare to the depositions) reissue the correct non fraudulent overpadding bills - not sure who JB is but whatever. The bills were not padded - look at them! She didn't add on to anything. She was hardly covering her expenses! by the way deduct all the overcharging you did and you owe him - would still like to know what overcharging? again if you are on a fact finding mission here and not just outright defamation - This will probably be my last post; Heather said not to even bother that it will all get settled in court once and for all. By the way, Mr. NC - thanks for finally putting it down in writing - you just made it much easier. She doesn't bother with the pettiness - I have a harder time with it - I can't believe you people. You all really have no idea what has gone on. |
| Business Plan? |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 06:32:04 04/03/2007 I just read the supposed business plan, if you can call it that. In addition to being factually incorrect (and short on facts), it contains several major errors in the very short "Financial" section that should have been a major red flag. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 1 replies)
Posted At 07:22:58 04/03/2007 yes it will all be sorted out in a court of law and she will be locked up for awhile and possibly that will give her some time to hatch a new plan on how to scam someone else. hey, she might even start soliciting from jail!!! oh and i think "we people" know what is going on. with any luck if she gets away with this lawsuit there are several more waiting for her so she will be busy for awhile. she is on something like her 3rd or 4th lawyer from what i understand. even though we are pursuing the cause against her she has ug a hole for herself that she may as well jump into. |
| Anon |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 07:33:06 04/03/2007 Hmmmm, sounds like Heather "Don't quite know what my last name is until I rip off the next person" ACTUALLY has a friend! Feel sorry for that person! They'll learn - unfortunately the hard way! |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 09:07:29 04/03/2007 yes how sad that heather would most likely sell her mother if she could get 25 cents and a food stamp oh i am sorry i dont want to make fun of people who actually need welfare benefits.this friend will learn soon enough, everyone else has!!!! |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 09:14:53 04/03/2007 clearly heather would sell her own mother for 25 cents and a food stamp. oh i am sorry i dont want to make fun of someone who actually deserves those benefits. i feel sorry for that friend too maybe the only reason for the loyalty is there is nothing that she can steal from that particular friend. |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:03:27 04/03/2007 People might choose to be annoyed by some of the "gossipy-type" behavior in this thread, however, if all the talk prevents even just one person from being sucked into her scheme then it has served it's purpose. Furthermore, if she had such stellar character, would this many people be jumping on board to trash her?? Doubt it. |
| confused |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:53:13 04/03/2007 I just read the business plan and the Heather I know isn't smart enough to write that, so who helped her, Shoshana? |
| Interested Party |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 11:00:18 04/03/2007 You can get a template off the internet and just fill in the blanks. Again... definitely geared toward people who don't know the horse business. Any horse person would laugh at it. |
| ha! |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 12:07:54 04/03/2007 Somebody needs to get Judge Judy involved. She's the only one who could sort this out and give all parties the serious smackaround they deserve... |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:03:19 04/03/2007 Just one more question: I'm looking for Olivia Canto, a groom that Heahter supposedly fired.. Anyone know her? or when I can find her? |
| Marc |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:07:30 04/03/2007 Oh btw: FYI, There's a story on the home page of BadBusinessAlert, about the crap they put into pet foods that you pet owners (dogs & cats) might be interested in. |
| The real "411" source |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:47:42 04/03/2007 Idendity being kept seceret for my own reasons.. Thanks for understanding:) (All of this straight from the horses mouth! (heather) If you know her, you know all this is the truth!! She tells everyone she's married and that her husband has set her up with the perfect life, while he travels alot for work. EVERYONE really thought she was married to this great guy who totally took care of all her wants, well she enlightened me that if everyone thought she was married to someone who wasn't into horses but wanted her to be a happy wife, no one would question her rich lifestyle. Even the couple that came and rode for her each day didn't know her lies. (Andrew and Jenny) Nor did Jennifer her "Sales Person". She does owe the vet big money, I have a connection in the office over there and they told me the bill is around $10,000.00. Heather was dating/sleeping with her farrier at one time, didn't work out as a couple, now their just friends, thats why he keeps shoeing her horses!! He takes payment out in trade with her. He's desperate obviously!! EWWWWWWWW!!! She has slept her way through different men to get the investment money from them, then ends up "screwing" them in the end by not following through on her promises to sell quickly and make them a big return. She was doing the MARRIED NC man, she got the truc out of him, some money and then they had their falling out, (because she started seeing another guy), taking his money, NC found out what was really going on, that he's been just a money source for her , and was pissed, so he went after her for truck, and the money he gave her..She did do some jail time thanks to him!!! She would talk a good story to get investers to even come see the farm that wasn't even hers, then as soon as she had them convinced they would make big money, or got them in bed, they would stupidly wire her money for the purchases. She would talk with them long enough to schmooze them into meeting in person, go have a few drinks with them, so on and so on... and the rest is history as they say.. I myself, and a few good friends that I told about her quick way of turning over a big proffit, almost made the "investment mistake". I couldn't come through with my end of the investment money. My friends were a little nervous about it, not knowing anything about horses, they wanted to wait until she sold 1 or 2 of the current inventory, which was "guaranteed" to happen by November last year, (she still had them in February 2007) Thankfully after all of this has come out, I have to thank God, that it never materialized. Don't bother asking how I know her or any of this, I just do, Unfortunately I had the "UNpleasure" of her company for a few long months last year. Honestly, I really thought she was a lezbian for the longest time, (alot of people did) with her looks and all her actions, she's very bossy, and manly sometimes, but then was I enlightened with the truth about how she doesn't work but always had survival money, all these fancy horses and SPECIAL INVESTOR friends, so it became clear how she got her money, good old fashion prostitution of herself if you ask me. Favor for a favor. Like she said 1 time on her way to have a drink with a potential investor, "I'll do what I gotta do to make it happen." Well her momma must be so proud!! I am so glad our friendship died in its tracks so quickly, before things got out of control. I whitnessed her be so mean to her help, called them "Fu**ing Mexicans" behind their back, and Olivia her groom, was a gem to her. Whatever, her day will come. She WILL become someones "BIT**" in jail and then we can all sit back in relief knowing she's getting just what she deserves from her lesbian lover in a cell block.. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:57:08 04/03/2007 thank god i had the barf bag ready!!!!!!!!!!!! well i know she will obviously stop at nothing but i mean COME ON one would imagine ANYONE would want that ruddy thing!!! i recall her having that couple around a few years back when they were scheming up all their bizarre plots jenny and whatever his name was. never heard she was married and if i had heard it i would hope no one would be insane enough to tie the knot wit her. also i have kept this little tidbit to myself until now even though everyone knows about it and this came straight from the source too. she dated some poor unfortunate mexican guy way back when and scammed him outta 10 grand and about 5 minutes after he ponied up with the dough SHE DUMPED HIM!!!!! THE POOR guy was illegal and she basically said to him that he couldnt do anything to her and she could just call la migra. what a lousy thing to do especially bc it was prob his life savings a lot of those illegals obvi never put their money in a bank. stealing money from the rich is bad enough but once again here is a guy who quite likely had nothing and what he did have she took from him. i am happy to hear from "411" and i am glad he/she did not part with his/her money. i am not quite as close to heather (thank god) but i did have the unfortunate circumstance to speak with her several times and fortunately as i have already said her reputation (or lack thereof) preceded her. her "suburban sales pitch" and bad horse dealer talk was enough to send me FAR away. the scary thing is this girl has played with some of the bigger people in the business. well like whomever it was said 'there's an ass for every seat" it amazes me that she can still find barn help, she might consider getting off of her fat arse and doing some barn work, at least she will be a little more svelte for her trial date. |
| MM |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:27:40 04/03/2007 I have tried to refrain from reading this, but it has obviously been left on the board for a reason, could "the real 411 source" please tell me who the farrier is that will shoe horses for sex, because I am a little short this month ... :-) |
| * |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:52:59 04/03/2007 LMAO! |
| Anon |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:17:05 04/03/2007 Good one, MM!!! |
| ??? |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:15:45 04/03/2007 Oh my God, Heather having sex for money? She looks more like a Bull Dike than a anything, can you picture Heather standing on a street corner saying “My horses need new shoes, what’s your pleasure big boy!” |
| * |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:14:31 04/03/2007 In from the news wire! HEATHER HARGETT of Jacksonville, NC has failed to settle her indebtedness in connection with the Kentucky Spring Horse Show held May 11-15, 2005. HEATHER HARGETT, and horses, DUVAL, TRISTAN, and DREAMBOAT, are therefore automatically barred pursuant to Chapter 15, GR1508, from participating in any Recognized competition until further notice. |
| Anon |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:24:01 04/03/2007 What are you talking about? I just looked and couldn't find it. |
| re |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:30:15 04/03/2007 she did not get reinstated until september 2005 |
| Anon |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:31:37 04/03/2007 That is old news - your point was what? |
| Saddle Tramp |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:21:55 04/03/2007 Oh God. I might have to tranqualize myself. Apparently, there are many people out there who are unknowingly members of the "I slept with someone who slept with Heather club"! |
| An Idea! |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:38:12 04/03/2007 So if it's true that Tom S. provides a brothel for his Welly World customers, perhaps Heather can work off some of her indebtness there? |
| * |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:48:41 04/03/2007 You mean he doesn't want his customers to come back? Ever? There's more stuff posted on the site. |
| ha |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:06:08 04/03/2007 the motion to compel is interesting since it shows jacob williams was the allged buyers for his wife shamatuer the price sheet is interesting since brisant was priced on the internet for 25,000 and she price it much higher but siad in her depo she never ups the price...... |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:08:15 04/03/2007 yes, shes a fright. and she is getting puffier and fatter. ugh....like i have said get that barf bag ready. i wasnt this grossed out since i can not remember when. the visual of her getting it on with anyone other than that poor rottweiler she had a few yrs back. she could haunt houses. i wish i had her number bc on halloween bc i had a haunted house at my party and needed some ugly people to work in it. i liked the "bull dyke" comment. i am completely agreeing and have said it myself repeatedly and i will say it again. who in their right mind would want her. and "mm" she WAS using a blacksmith with the first name jeff his last name starts with a c. i know his name just thought i might sorta protect the sad people of the world that still feed into her disturbed and sick little situation. though most can read between the lines he is a pretty good farrier if that's who she is still using.she was using him as of a few yrs ago but i lost my front row seat to her dog and pony show so not sure if she still uses him. he's no prize himself but i could imagine he could still do better than that. GROSSSSSSSS.... GOTTA GO STICK MY FINGER DOWN MY THROAT I NEED TO VOMIT... |
| An Idea! |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:10:49 04/03/2007 Yes, ha, and she's also been outed for listing Rampallo as being available for $75,000 when he was advertised elsewhere for $55,000. My, she does like her mark-ups! |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:23:23 04/03/2007 well dont you know how to sell horses??? come on "an idea" when in doubt add a zero!!!!! i guess she has forgotten that pricing them one way and selling them for that price are 2 very different things.she rarely seems to actually sell them anyway from what i recall she was dragging the same losers up and down the highway years ago. well maybe there are a few suckers out there that still have their "quality investments" that will be sold like hot cakes since there is such a demand for her 'product" considering this was a pretty dead circuit for selling (and i am sure there will be 20 people to disagree with me but thats their choice i guess) i am doubting she will sell them. if so she is going to need it am sure she will need a "dream team" to get her outta this one. too bad johnny cochran had to up and die on us i bet he would of taken it on. |
| An Idea! |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:30:02 04/03/2007 Actually, cheney, I was more amused that she was choosing horses advertised elsewhere -- not by her -- and they offering them up to Marc (and whoever else), apparently at a grand mark-up (no pun intended!). That is indeed quite some horse-trading! I wonder if the people who had actually advertised the horses for sale knew that they were being shopped by someone else for far more money? Also, one wonders if Heather told Marc or other potential investors that Brisant is a pony?? One hopes that Marc and any others use the list and the actual ads for ammo. |
| An Idea! |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:30:46 04/03/2007 Actually, cheney, I was more amused that she was choosing horses advertised elsewhere -- not by her -- and then offering them up to Marc (and whoever else), apparently at a grand mark-up (no pun intended!). That is indeed quite some horse-trading! I wonder if the people who had actually advertised the horses for sale knew that they were being shopped around by someone else for far more money? Also, one wonders if Heather told Marc or other potential investors that Brisant is a pony?? One hopes that Marc and any others use the list and the actual ads for ammo. |
| Afevue |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:35:07 04/03/2007 Gee, I can hardly guess who is suggesting a brothel be set up! |
| admin |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:45:44 04/03/2007 cheney: rumour has it that Jeff... was also screwed to the tune of $6,000. Keep checking, new, interesting stuff will be posted soon. It takes time to prepare all the documentation. I appreciate all the people stepping up with info. |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 23:20:51 04/03/2007 Leaky houseboat -- "Yes, your show record was impressive...over 30 years ago. What exactly have you done since? I hardly think that qualifies you to speak as an expert today." I don't see the burden of proof is on me, but rather you since you attack under an anonymous blog ID - perhaps I should make a federal crimimal complaint with the U.S. Attorney's Office for failing to provide me your real name upon demand, which I am at this time making on you. Or do you lack such "expertise" that you did not know posting under an anonymous blog ID and attacking someone became a federal crime about a year ago? What have I done since? Oh, graduated from a 5 year joint Juris Doctorate/Masters in Business Administration program in 4 years. One years worth of MBA classes were waived due to my good grades as an undergraduate. I also law clerked for attorneys for 18 years now, and additionally leased and ran two show barns in Northern California. Just two weeks after cantering his first course, my current horse I saved from slaughter for $600 was Level 2 jumper champion at Pickwick Summer "A" trouncing a bunch of those $65 K experienced warmblood jumpers with other trainers riding. But I do not feel I have to justify your attackl by writing a book on a blog. LB -- "but the last I checked, you were not licensed by the Florida bar association. So without passing a bar exam, can you really call yourself a lawyer? Certainly not a very talented or knowledgeable one, I'd think." If I were any law firm thinking of hiring you for your research skills, I would definitely pass you over. I went to an ABA-accredited law school, but since it is pretty obvious you have not the slighest clue what that means, it means I am not limited to having to pass a bar exam in Florida like people who can't cut it at ABA-accredited law school, like some people who attend only Florida accredited law schools. See, your research, being of such poor quality, missed the fact I passed the California Bar Exam. In case you *don't get it,* the California Bar Exam is way harder than Florida's bar exam. And don't go putting words in my mouth -- I neve rsaid I was a licensed Florida lawyer, I said my husband was who was sitting beside me telling me to write comments. Did you need his bar number to satisfy yourself? FBN 624586 is my husband's Bar no. And if you think I lack teh skills and ability to be a lawyer, why don't you just go ask the Honorable James D. Whittemore about the admiralty case my husband and I litigated as co-plaintiffs pro se, where we arrested a $500 K yacht, revealed defendants' key witness, Theron Hutto's willful, knowing, admitted, confessed, asnd recognized by the Judge perjury, where the vessel failed to report in to U.S. Customs at port of Tampa as of 2006 on a Chicago O'Hare U.S. Customs Permit to Proceed, where the purportedly "registered" Cayman Island vessel lacked both the CI registration onboard and insurance (required to maintain CI registration), and where the last owner listed by the U.S. Coast Guard was Enron's former bankruptcy counsel out of Skadden Arps in Chicago. Last I recall, Honorable Judge Whittemore said I was one of the most experienced and capable federal litigators that has come before him in his Courtroom. So maybe next time you should do your research and get the facts straight before making a fool of yourself. I only expressed my shock at what Marc was put through because I got scammed by two indivuals with extensive domestic violence, foreclosure, eviction, and one with cocaine trafficking, federal firearms, and worthless check backgound who were starving horses and somehow got entrusted with a 250-stall horse show facility. Those who get scammed sometimes like to share their stories about why the hunter jumper industry needs to be cleaned up a bit. P.S, LB, this is a demand for retraction of your defamatory statement that I have not passed a bar exam. |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 23:45:26 04/03/2007 I think Shoshanna must be a nice girl, and her Mom certainly told us how things are from her perspective. What I see here is that even if Heather thought she could build herself into a top level trainer the way she went about it, the problem is she lacked a sufficiently long enough riding education with really top trainers and cetainly appears to lack even the most basic legal education. This is a prescription for disaster. That is why when my friend, C. James Heft, Esq. told me to go to law school, I did -- I wanted to engage in equine activities thr *right way,* not the wrong way. Using someone else's money to put horses that money buys into her Heather's name is definitely the *wrong way." Leading someone with less experience in the industry to trust and put confidence in her that investment horses without a show record can be sold in 30-60 days is definitely the "wrong way.* Not disclosing the number and amount of commissions is definitely the *wrong way." And that is just at the most basic level. I would never do that. cheney, you sound like my Italian husband. You're very funny. I might even get to like you. Don't you respect your elders? Do you go around telling Leslie Burr Howard she won the Maclay over 30 years ago, so what does she know about the Maclay since she is a jumper rider now? Or would you tell someone like Rita Timpanero or Anna Jane White Mullin their show records don't mean much because they are elders in this business? When was the last time Kathy Kusner showed in the Olympics or tried to become a jockey? Maybe she doesn't count either? Please. AL, I am not disputing that the horse business is very expensive in Wellington. There are other places one can have a show stable, charge less, and still go to teh big shows and bring home the awards. In my opinion, there are way too many people these days who have to buy that $100 K made warmblood precisley because no one ever taught them how to take a Snowman and make a millioon dollar horse themselves. That you can afford to do it with the ultra expensive horses and in Wellington, that is a good thing, and I genuinely hope you enjoy your horses. But for some of us, we do not have that kind of funding, and what this whole Heather thing does, every time there is a bad seed, is ruins ot for the rest of us who are also seeking a sponsor. Some of us with a lot more talent and more of as demonstrated show record than Miss Heather. That is what is the shame of this whole thing. Imagine years ago if what Heather has done spoiled it for someone like Molly Ash. we would all be the losers. JB, keep asking your questions! But just know that just because that is the way all the others do it, does not mean it it ok. |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 23:58:46 04/03/2007 cheney "if she was smart enough to keep some of the money one would hope she would have taken that cash and skipped the country." My bet is she took the money and used it to pay her lawyers. Wonder how much she is spending on her defense. |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 00:12:05 04/04/2007 cheney -- "ya know the one who was champion at indoors 32 years ago" I never said I was champion indoors. Don't go putting words in my mouth I never said. My horse got injured at Washington. I said I was an AHSA (now USEF) National A/O Hunter Horse-of-the Year Champion. "Piece O' Cake." Why don't you confirm it with the USEF. Or, you could ask Bruce Duchessoi, he knew me when I beat out his great horse, Kim's Song. On the way to the HOTY Title, I also won the Championship at Atlanta H-J Clasis, beating out Peter Busch's Stocking Stuffer, and at north shore, I beat out Robin Bacon Greenwood's 20th Centure Limited. You might ask Norman Dello Joio about remembering me when he was still riding "On Cue," his children's hunter, with Ronnie -- before he showed the World what he was made of. Did you know (I personally heard) many mock Norman for lacking talent back in those days, like some of you choose to mock me and others without justification, but I knew better that Norman was a real good rider. A Bronze Medal and THe World Cup -- way to go Norman!! Maybe not your era, but one would think with all you know you would have a sense of history. |
| showjump |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 00:45:43 04/04/2007 she was set down or going to be soon when she was advertising on craigslit. |
| showjump |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 00:48:37 04/04/2007 I remember you Mary!!! |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 01:19:08 04/04/2007 showjump ... I remember you, too! Let's see, where was it we last showjumped together? Where are you showjumping now? I am showjumping in Odessa at the moment. |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 01:30:38 04/04/2007 So much for staying up late doing gopher work to help my husband prepare for a hearing tomorrow. Everyone went to sleep already. And cheney must have gone to dinner ... showjump, fill me in. I was just trying to be funny, but I really want to know! What are you doing down in Wellie? Or are you up in Tampa right now? If you are in Tampa, let me know. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 07:30:37 04/04/2007 glad to see petrano is back with a vengeance. glad to hear ya might learn to like me and i remind you a little of your italian husband which is kinda funny since im a woman.the funny thing is i have WAY more respect for the older established people in this business with some staying power. and i would have to have been living under a friggin rock for the past 20 yrs not to know who kathy kusner is.i think my initial comment was not to make your accomplishments less than they are however you of all people must know that people in this business have a very short memory which is a shame. this has become such an instant gratification sport. the injuries to the horses, horses you see one season then never again. here i will give you my blast from the past, what about "for the moment" good old american thoroughbred who still jumped grand prix in his early 20's. not to drift off course from "haunt a house heather" but she is prime example of what is messed up with our sport. people with no clue that are getting clients and showing. i am all for anyone who doesnt or didnt have money or had a lowly position that managed to work their way up. i am not so excited about some of these people who just wake up one day and decide they are going to be a rider or trainer when they dont even know the basics of horse care. the business is far from what it used to be. and the saddest part is this. everyone has their gripe about losing money blah blah but in the end you know who really suffers the most is the horse. we are supposed to be doing this for fun, some people do it for a business but i always thought we are doing this bc we love horses. this business is like mcdonalds almost. and ya know what this town is the biggest mess of all. all this bs about the stupid show moving every 20 minutes. when the herpes virus was lingering over here so to speak how many of these people were more worried about losing money than whether their horses were ok.i might be younger though have a very good memory i remember watching buddy brown ride "touch the sun" when i was quite young and of course rodney jenkins et al. so there ya have it petrano maybe i am not as far out of your realm of thinking in some ways. i do applaud your education. good for you and i mean that bc i hate school and couldnt wait to stop going. you know i was in a rush to get into this fabulous business!!!! a little scary that i am agreeing with ya now haha but not on everything so we can leave it at that. if you ever prosecute another guy who has a 500k yacht do ya think ya can ask the federal government to give it to me when it is in receivership???? " 1 800 let me steal your money heather" will not be invited on board. oh i doubt very much that she used any of that money for legal fees. she is only on something like her 10th lawyer (well maybe that's a bit of a reach) i was saying she best skip the country bc after all the lawsuits against her and for sure anyone who reads this might not be too keen on investing with her what else can she do??? |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 07:54:15 04/04/2007 hey folks i think someone (maybe heather) is trying to have this discussion shut down. there is a "letter to jill townsend" about us and our little talk here. it doesnt state it specifically but it is clear its about hargett. i pf course had to add in my 2 cents ya know i hafta give my opinion whetehr its liked or not. we need to keep this going. wellington needs to know these things as do other people all over. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 08:03:27 04/04/2007 and of course i never said just bc i did not remem you that it means anything petrano. i cant know every single person that ever rode at a horse show even though i try to keep up wit whats going on. one day when you win at a horse show i might be there to see you perform and then i will come up and introduce myslef so that you can see that cheney lives!!!! i am sure you ride better than most especially heather!!! YOU GO ON WIT YOUR BAD SELF!!!!!!!!! |
| Stunned |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:31:15 04/04/2007 What happened, I stopped reading the board for a few days and wow! Is this Heather person still around? In Wellington? Have the police done anything yet? |
| friend of a friend |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:55:02 04/04/2007 I have never met Heather personally, but she was involved in "business" venture with a close friend of mine. She wrote bad checks, did not live up to her professional obligations, and intentionally (and I dare say maliciously) scammed several people out of thousands of dollars. I commend Marc for bringing her business ethics into question. I have watched my friend suffer, for years, repeatedly as a direct result of Heather's betrayal. She's obviously "good" at what she does because she has scammed several intelligent memebers of the equestrian community, people who did do their homework before investing. I'm glad that there is now more "homework" available for people who would potentially invest with Heather in the future. Hopefully this message board will allow others to not suffer the same devastation as my friend. |
| Anon |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:48:27 04/04/2007 Gads, I wish this "board" could be brought to court so the judge can really see what a LOSER/psycho/ripoff artist she really is! |
| m |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:36:26 04/04/2007 Hey does anyone know if this heather girl braids....I had a Heather try to help me last season....a little strange I thought, thats why she lasted one wkend. |
| Stunned |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:49:02 04/04/2007 YES, Heather does braiding, it is probably her, look at her photo on Marc's website |
| Duuuuuuuuuuude |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:25:16 04/04/2007 MKD-P: Rita, Leslie, Anna Jane, and Kathy (as well as everyone else you have so shamelessly name dropped here) has been busy in the HORSE BUSINESS over the past thirty years. They have proven themselves each and every year while you, as far as I can tell, are at best a has been. I think it is sad that you are so relentlessly self-aggrandizing. In my experience, people who constantly try to hammer home how important they are turn out to be very small people indeed. |
| What? |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:43:04 04/04/2007 Hey Duuuuuuuuude who are you directing this to? |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:06:59 04/04/2007 bottom line folks. she has GOT to go. her departure outta the horse world will be the biggest gift to the business since a certain amount of scum got tossed into jail for killing their horses for insurance. the sad thing is i think this girl will stop at nothing even when she gets outta jail. i seriously think she will do some time when all these people finish suing her. safety in numbers folks look at all the people on here who are against her imagine the bunch of people coming outta the woodwork that say she screwed them bounced checks etc etc. OFF WITH HER HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| see |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:35:12 04/04/2007 see Marc's site under "more emails" you will see what this person does to try and recruit business.....you may be surprised to see the horses and business scheme |
| Anon |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 09:09:58 04/05/2007 The horses are GORGEOUS!!!!! What a shame. Psychotic idiot! She needs to go, big time!!! |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 09:47:56 04/05/2007 D-- "MKD-P: Rita, Leslie, Anna Jane, and Kathy (as well as everyone else you have so shamelessly name dropped here) has been busy in the HORSE BUSINESS over the past thirty years. They have proven themselves each and every year while you, as far as I can tell, are at best a has been. I think it is sad that you are so relentlessly self-aggrandizing. In my experience, people who constantly try to hammer home how important they are turn out to be very small people indeed." So what are you proving? That Rita, Leslie, Anna Jane, and Kathy don't have law degrees or attorney licenses because they did not take the time go go through law school, and therefore so from time to time they have to PAY lawyers to help them? As I recall, one of my horse show heroes, the late C. James Heft, imported great horses from Jacques Ferland, showed the big shows, and practiced law. I suppose his more well-rounded qualifications in your double-speak would be mischaracterized as a "has been" as well just so you can puff-up your ego with a put down. And I suppose Victor hugo Vidal who has not won anything recently to prove himself (because he happened to become deceased) is as "has been" by virtue of the passage of time, or maybe so is everyone who ride in the 1960 Rome Olympics, because after all it is not 1960 anymore. Please. As I recall, wasn't it George Morris himself who is always lamenting the lack of classical horsemanship these days that we all learned in the old days? Since when do the recently-proven pony riders these days ride as beautifully with automatic releases like Nancy Baroody, for example. Oh, I forgot, she doesn't count -- not relevant -- hasn't proven herself in the pony division for too many years. I could go on and on, but if I do to honor the riders I admire, you will say I am self-aggrandizing these great riders. Don't you have anything better to do with your time than be a dark could raining on everyone's parade? I do recognize you as one of the autism haters from COTH, so why don't you give me your real name like the federal criminal law requires you to do on demand, instead of continuing to be such a little chicken, little nothing person that you have to attack under "Leaky boat" and "Duuuuude" to we can all see who you are? what are you afraid of -- your own bad seed background? Your conduct admits it all. Maybe Viceremos and all the other people who raise money for the disabled and Special Olympics would like to know your name so they can choose not to do business or associate with one with such prejudice. Your accusations are quite baseless and unsupported, and I know I don't even need to say it because you already know, since you provide no facts to demonstrate you are at all familiar with California shows, and therefore you would not have a clue whether I have been in the horse business the last 30 years or whether I have proven myself again since 30 years ago. Or is California not a part of the American horse show scene? Maybe Hap Hansen, Richard Spooner, and Rich Fellers would like to know that!! I suppose you also don't count Spruce Meadows as the hot spot of horses show proving grounds either. What a small minded individual, rather like the wizard when Dorothy pulled back the curtain in the Wizard of Oz and discovered the little pitiful man who had the big bark had no bite and was masquerading as something he was not. Get a life and quit supporting Miss Heather's ethics problem by attacking those who don't approve. |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 09:51:27 04/05/2007 I'll say it again, Leaky Boat a/k/a/ Duuuuude, since my autism e-AT resulted in a typo -- Don't you have anything better to do with your time than be a dark cloud raining on everyone's parade? |
| annoyed |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:17:41 04/05/2007 could we please stick to the subject of this thread, which is not about who is licensed to practice law in what state and how old a show record has to be to be valid? Create another thread for this argument and quit wasting time for those of us who are interested in the topic of the thread |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:20:29 04/05/2007 cheney, again so funny! My husband has a mother, and she is just like him, Italian-Sicilian. I get asked all the time how to spell Petrano, and I always have to tell people "like Mt. Petrano in Italy." It has been quite an adjustment becoming an Italianized American! My husband's late father won a limerock mine by betting on a racehorse. I agree with almost everything you say. I didn't like all the work in school, either. And there are a lot of things that have gone down a not-so-good path in this horse business. Hopefully those who care will prevail in the end. I am glad to here you like perserverance. I think you might still be a little younger than I am. I don't remember Buddy riding Touch the Sun. I did watch Steve Stephens riding him though. I grew up riding at what is now Old Salem Farm during the winter in the indoor watching Buddy bring along Sandsablaze. I dated Buddy's brother, Skip, when I was in high school. I remember Debbie Stephens when she was still at Hurdle Hill in Buffalo. I saw the talents of Will Simpson in the jumpers in Indiana when he was still a teenager when I was just sitting there watching the show and didn't know who he was until I saw this amazing blazing time by a kid in the jumper classes, and I can remember Jeffrey Welles hauling into the Aiken Ramblewoord shows with his mom in their old trailer riding all these ponies with so talent you could just see where that would take him. Gregory Best, about age 7, asked to ride my mare, Piece O' Cake one day I has having a difficult time, and how could anyone not know he had a future! I can even remember Margie on ponies and junior hunters with Kevin Eufemia in tow at the ingate at Brooksville. The history of the sport, LOL. But I tell you what, if my husband and I ever arrest any more mysteriously-owned yachts in marine peril (and I hear 2007 is going to be a good year for Hurricanes), I'll let you know, and for sure it won't be one of those ones owned by any of my long-lost friends. Blue Moon, you are safe in your berth, but just know I would love to be invited aboard! All the seamen in my law school made me take admiralty and maritime law with the "guys," and join their maritime law ass'n, so they could teach me the difference between a boat and a ship. Then I met Mr. Mt. Petrano, who got the Book Award in admiralty in law school, and we were destined to meet The M/Y Mistress ... |
| AKG |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:40:55 04/05/2007 I am terribly confused as to why this Mary persons show and law record is at all relevant? And autism haters? Are you kidding me? What does that have to do with...anything? And by the way, I just moved to FL from CA and I have never heard of you. Ever. And Pickwick is the smallest "A" show in the state, so...maybe dropping that name was not the best choice. |
| i doubt |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:59:09 04/05/2007 AKG: Or Alex Gorey, Mary Katherine is much older than you (A/O's)...what aren't you just fresh out of the juniors? What are you 23 or 25 years old? You were not probably riding when Mary Katherine was. Don't pick at her.....we never heard of you either but that does not mean you didn't show and win.....your just feeding the frenzy. Stay on topic |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 11:07:00 04/05/2007 Well, annoyed "could we please stick to the subject of this thread, which is not about who is licensed to practice law in what state and how old a show record has to be to be valid? Create another thread for this argument and quit wasting time for those of us who are interested in the topic of the thread," I guess you are getting a real education in what the First Amendment means! Ya see, the First Amendment allows you the privilege of averting your eyes or skipping the posts you don't like, while preserving free speech (a more weighty concern of a fundamental Constitutional nature) for those who wish to speak it, like me. It is the perfect solution. I have no problems with it. I guess, though, you're real gripe is that you are more tantalized by the porn everyone is complaining about on the other thread this morning, and who is or is not a "has been," and all sorts of other luscious trashy stuff, than the classic history of our sport and other culturally enlightening subjects like the yachts some people stay on during the horse show season and what the ethical people on this thread think about those horsemen/horsewomen who may be complained about for lacking professional ethics in their horse dealings. annoyed, you are annoying, but fortunately, this is the last of you because in the future I will avert my eyes ... as well as continue to exercise my fundamental Constitutional right to free speech and association since a mere annoyance does not qualify as a concern of equal weight in the scheme of Constitutional rights to speak one's mind as far as I'm concerned. Never a dull moment in Florida equestrian circles, wouldn't you know! |
| CHENEY |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 11:24:39 04/05/2007 lets keep it up folks bc obviously people keep reading and the smarter ones will read ALL the posts so they can understand the actual reasoning behind a lot of what has been said. THE IMPORTANT THING IS HEATHER MUST GO!!!! her time has come we continue to present the facts. the heather supporters seem to have dropped off of here realizing soon enough that her whole act is a "done circus". once again what do i have to gain by being a hater of "haunt a house heather"?? absolutely squat!!! but as i have said time and again i had personal experience with her to know what a crook she really is. |
| Admin |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:32:33 04/05/2007 New email: Just got this in. "To whom it may concern. My 26 year old neice was conned by Hargett. She had to go to Chicago to track her horse down. She then had to secure it at a barn that had 24 hour surveillance for fear that this women would kill her horse. From what I understand this women has conned a group in NC as well and I thought that they were persuing charges. This will be very interesting how this plays out.I will continue to check your site." People are coming out of the woodwork, to speakout about Ms Hargett. I thank you all for stepping up! |
| Mere |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 14:44:50 04/05/2007 WOW, WOW, WOW!!! Now more people are coming forward? I'm shaking my head. How could this have happened to so many people for so long????? What a shame... |
| Saddle Tramp |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 15:30:59 04/05/2007 There are many more to come out of the woodwork. I had quite an ordeal with her myself. Sadly, I seriously risked my reputation by trying to help her. I was conned. I thought, "Wow, I don't know what those people are talking about, she seems so nice and helpful". That, of course was in the beginning. What a manipulative bitch. She misrepresented the ownership of the horses that I was interested in helping her sell. That is just the tip of the iceberg. After we had a falling out, I found out she had the nerve to use ME for a casual reference. Luckily the guy knew me so when I happened to call him a few weeks later he asked me what I thought about his doing business with her. Of course, he was just testing me. I said, "honestly, don't walk -- RUN away!". He replied with, "I really thought you couldn't possibly be friends with her, she's a really slime ball!"! |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 16:40:52 04/05/2007 i think the reason a lot of people didnt come forward is bc some of them maybe did not have the resources to pursue her legally. i think she would steal from anyone including her friends and people who thought maybe they could take 5 or 10k of their hard earned money and maybe invest it and make a few thousand dollars extra. how sad that this girl would probably screw her own mother just to make 25 cents. since she worked for other professionals unfortunately there were one or two that helped her including one prominent grand prix rider. (in one case and this is true, they sold a horse and he made huge commission and had some strange loyalty to her. so she had him on her side and it made it appear like she maybe knew something and she did play with the bigger people in the business. this was part of the reason people would believe her bc she would name drop and also actually interact with these people on a regular basis so even your seasoned professional might think she had a thing or two going on. this male rider had been asked why he dealt with her and never seemed to have an answer so i am sure he made some cash off some shady horse dealings with her. she's a bottom feeder plain an simple!!!!! |
| Admin |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:13:23 04/05/2007 Dear WEF posters: We have been requested to post the name and number of Heather's current counsel as some people want to contact them to see if they can collect their alleged losses. As such, it is as follows, for those who need it: Gregory P. Borgognoni, Esq. Borgognoni & Gutierrez 2665 S. Bayshore Drive, Suite 701 Miami, FL 33133 gborgognoni@bgalaw.com Mr. Gutierrez - ngutierrez@bgalaw.com Phone: 305-860-2060 Fax: 305-860-2068 |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 17:49:59 04/05/2007 wow. ya see how things work??? perfect!! i love it when a plan comes together even when it's not my plan!!! boy oh boy i bet their phone lines will ring nonstop. ah well as they say "outta the frying pan, into the fire". she needs to be shut down. these attorneys will probably quit too...... |
| Enlighten Me |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:25:15 04/05/2007 Well, we all figured it was either that he was sleeping with her or they made a HUGE commission on that horse...if it's the one I'm thinking of several years back. (Or, I guess both, right?) Strange loyalty indeed. |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:36:31 04/05/2007 well i would seriously hope he was not doing her. i mean for real he is pretty gross but i guess he has that "cowboy" appeal complete with the fried off from the sun red skin that maybe some girls might like esp since he is one of the few straight guys at the show. they did make a chunk off of that one deal. also his girlfriend/fiance whatever HATES heather with a passion. i dont know how long they were in cahoots but i would doubt she lets him outta her sight much and if he was doing her i hope he had a bag to put over her head. GROSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 18:56:13 04/05/2007 the guy got her out of jail....what's his name todd something |
| Not Admin! |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 19:54:59 04/05/2007 I can't believe that WEF Admin would lower themselves and involve themselves in this (albeit entertaining) thread. I would hazard a guess that Marc is the one posting as Admin. This 'Heather' chick seems like a real crook, but i think so does Marc in a way. He did not come close to doing due dilligence and who in their right mind hands over 100K + to someone they dont' know and isn't licenced. Marc you have your horses, and it seems you owed $$ for expences, you know you'll never get anything other than a moral victory, if that. What do you hope to acheive whilst bankrupting yourself in the process? If you have the horses what is the judge going to award you. Heather's share of Silco??? This is a hard lesson you are learning and could get even harder to swollow $$ wise. |
| figure it out |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:09:56 04/05/2007 What trainer or professional is licensed? She has an established corporation Griffon Gate check sunbiz.org go to Marc's site and look under more emails, look at the attachments and see the stuff she issues...it all looks good on paper to bad it is all lies and fraudulent misrepresentations....... the judge will award plenty, just wait and you will see perhaps you should see the Berlin case...that should assist everyone in understanding what is at stake.... by the way marc is not bankrupting himself....where is her apology to him and the 50+ others she wrote bad checks to and stiffed......why do you all pity her....If you feel sorry for her give her an email because she is looking for investors |
| kentucky law worth a thought |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:12:43 04/05/2007 In September 2005, Jess Jackson filed a lawsuit that reverberated throughout the Thoroughbred racing world. Jackson, attorney and billionaire founder of Kendall- Jackson Wine Estates, sued three of his former Thoroughbred racing industry advisors, alleging fraud, breach of fiduciary duty and unjust enrichment in connection with horse sales. Since 2003, Jackson had invested heavily in Thoroughbred bloodstock and Kentucky horse farms. The suit alleges that bloodstock agents and others Jackson hired to act on his behalf lined their pockets at Jackson’s expense by inflating the prices of horses sold to Jackson and accepting secret commissions from third parties. As of June 2006, the suit is currently pending. At the same time, Jackson refused to accept insiders’ advice that secret commissions and dual agency are “just the way the industry works,” and lobbied for change. Jackson’s lobbying efforts led to the passage of a new Kentucky law designed to decrease fraud in horse sales. In March 2006, Kentucky Governor Ernie Fletcher signed House Bill 446, which applies to sales of horses used for racing or showing, including young prospects and breeding stock. Penalties for violating the new law include treble damages and recovery of costs and attorneys’ fees. Key Provisions of the New Law Each sale, purchase or transfer must be accompanied by a written bill of sale that includes the purchase price and is signed by buyer and seller. It is unlawful for an agent to represent both the buyer and the seller in a transaction unless the agent discloses the dual representation in advance in writing and both buyer and seller agree to the dual agency in writing. If an agent represents both the buyer and the seller, buyer and seller can request copies of all financial records relating to the transaction. It is unlawful for an agent to accept payment or any item of value worth more than $500 from anyone other than his principal unless (a) the agent and the person making the payment disclose the compensation in writing to both the buyer and the seller AND (b) the agent’s principal consents in writing to the payment. There is one important exception to the new law – show horse transactions of less than $10,000 are not covered. How Will This New Law Affect Me? Even if you are not a Kentucky resident, this new law will apply to you if: -You buy a horse in Kentucky. Example: You are a New Jersey resident. You hire a bloodstock agent, who advises you to purchase a certain Thoroughbred yearling at the Keeneland sale. You are entitled to a receipt from the auction house showing the purchase price. Your bloodstock agent cannot represent any other party in the transaction unless the agent has advised you in writing in advance of the sale and you have agreed in writing. Your agent also cannot accept compensation of more than $500 from anyone other than you in connection with the sale unless the agent discloses it in writing and you agree. -You sell a horse in Kentucky. Example: You are a New York resident. Your trainer advises you to sell several of your two-year-olds by consigning them to the Keeneland sale. Your trainer cannot represent any other party in the transaction unless your trainer has advised you in writing in advance of the sale and you have agreed in writing. Your trainer also cannot accept compensation of more than $500 from anyone other than you in connection with the sale unless your trainer discloses it in writing and you agree. -You buy a horse from a Kentucky resident. Example: You are an Ohio resident purchasing a Quarter Horse cutting stallion from a seller in Kentucky. Your trainer is assisting you with the sale and negotiates a purchase price of $12,500 on your behalf. You are entitled to receive a written bill of sale signed by the seller (not just your trainer) that includes the purchase price, and your trainer cannot accept any compensation of $500 or more from anyone other than you in connection with the sale unless he or she discloses it to you in writing and you agree in writing. -You sell a horse to a Kentucky resident. Example: You are a Maryland resident selling a Thoroughbred racing broodmare. You advertise the horse on the Internet and a Kentucky resident agrees to purchase the mare for $6500. You must provide the purchaser with a bill of sale signed by you that includes the purchase price. Even though the mare is only $6500, the exception for transactions that are $10,000 or less only applies to show horses. -You are an agent in the sale of a horse to a Kentucky resident. Example: You are a Tennessee Walking Horse trainer residing in Tennessee. A client consigns a horse to you to sell. Another trainer, a Virginia resident, negotiates the purchase of the horse for $22,500 for her client, a Kentucky resident. You must provide the buyer with a written bill of sale signed by your client that includes the $22,500 purchase price. Your own signature on the bill of sale would be insufficient – your client’s signature is necessary. -You are an agent in the purchase of a horse by a Kentucky resident. Example: You are a reining trainer residing in West Virginia, and you have a client who resides in Kentucky. Your client wishes to purchase a Paint stallion from an owner in North Carolina. You arrange the purchase for $31,000 from the North Carolina owner’s trainer. Your client is entitled to receive a bill of sale for $31,000 signed by the North Carolina owner (not just the North Carolina owner’s trainer). You cannot accept any compensation of $500 or more from anyone in the transaction other than your client unless you disclose it in writing and your client agrees in writing. So, even if you have never even visited Kentucky, this new law may have an effect upon you and the manner in which you conduct your business. Exceptions Even if your transaction involves a Kentucky resident, the new law will not apply to you if: -You are selling a show horse for less than $10,000 -You are buying a show horse for less than $10,000 -You are an agent in a sale of a show horse for less than $10,000 Resources Full text of bill and legislative history: http://www.lrc.ky.gov/record/06RS/HB446.htm |
| not admin |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:30:24 04/05/2007 Why would i email her? I wouldn't be stupid enough to invest $1 in someone that is not a well known BNT on the circuit and if i knew nothing about horses i'd sure get some knowlege from more than one source before handing over 100K plus to in essence a stranger. Marc was also happy enough with the transaction to solicit other investors to join them. Her crookedness and his stupidity..they deserve each other! Also how can he not be bankrupting himself with this case given that he didn't have anything to live on at one point so he couldn't pay his expences owed on horses, unless his lawyer is taking him on pro-bono. I can't imagine that his lawyer is doing that because she couldn't hope to recover any $$ from Heather to pay fees! I'm not siding with her, she is a master crook it would seem, but i can't stand the stupidity that Marc |
| admin |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:18:25 04/05/2007 Hey there not admin: Let's start right off with the stupidity issue. I guess you must not be very bright yourself, as you could simply run your mouse over my "admin" name and see that the email address is admin@BadBusinessalert.com DUH! I'm not hiding. And if you really were that bright (Einstein) you would look at the other thread that Ms Hargete/Williams has started in hopes to get this thread deleted, and you would clearly see that Jill who apparently moderates this board signs on as Jill, not as admin. I guess we have the stupidity issue covered now. I'm not going to dignify an answer for the rest of your post as YOU ARE stupid, in the way you think. And I have no doubt as to who you are. For the record, Marc (that would be me) is NOT bankrupting himself... Just because he would not let Ms Hargett/Williams bleed him dry, doesn't mean he's broke. And at least he DOES have an attorney, that is doing a terrific job on this case, while he doesn't think that ms Hargett/Williams has even retained her attorney yet. Speaking with an attorney (this is the third one so far) is one thing, while putting up the cash to actually retain an attorney is quite another thing. It seems ( I could be wrong) that no attorney cares to represent Ms Hargett/Williams. Not sure why? True, Marc was not knowledgeable of horses, and made a horrible mistake trusting a small time con like Ms Hargett/Williams. And again, from what I can see Marc was not the only one to trust this little fraudster. I would say that "STUPID" is not the appropriate word here, unless that's the extent of your vocabulary. So, he's willing to ride this to the end, and then some. Don't worry your little self with what he expects to gain out of this. He will see closure, don't understimate him. btw: That Kentucky law is much needed right here in FLorida. That would probably thwart little cons like Hargett/Williams and would have spared me cash and all the headaches.. |
| not admin |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 21:51:38 04/05/2007 Admin...Who am i??? I doubt i'm who you think i am! Heather *may* be a small time con who needs to be stopped for sure. All i can say is 'stupid is as stupid does', and to come into the situation with a 'life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get' attitude is not too smart. There's a reason they put a card with descriptions of the chocolates in the box. So you can evaluate fully and choose accordingly rather than having to bite in and realising that you don't like that flavor. I hope you get all that you are hoping for. |
| r u |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:03:37 04/05/2007 not admin....aren't you the same rfastracehorse@yahoo.com who is posting on the Chronicle Forumhttp://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?p=2344626 your posts there seemed to be recognizing what is happening marc is one of many...he is not alone |
| not admin |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 22:25:58 04/05/2007 "your posts there seemed to be recognizing what is happening" What does that mean? I just entertained myself reading all posted material and asked questions. I guess i should get a new hobby. LOL |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 01:23:13 04/06/2007 " am terribly confused as to why this Mary persons show and law record is at all relevant? And autism haters? Are you kidding me? What does that have to do with...anything? And by the way, I just moved to FL from CA and I have never heard of you. Ever. And Pickwick is the smallest "A" show in the state, so...maybe dropping that name was not the best choice." And ... you would like to be forthcoming with your OWN expert qualifications to give such an opinion? You probably show in Southern California, and can only locater Northern California on a google map. Until I hear something more from you that qualifies you as a H/J/HE expert other than "I just moved to FL from CA," I really have a hard time believing you have anything credible or even relevant to say -- maybe you only looked me up while you were in I-10 going through Western Texas and that's why you "never heard" of me. I also wonder if you have even read this thread, since you are asking how the subject of law is relevant when this is a thread about what other people about on person's lawsuit. Reading Comprehension grade -- a definite F. |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 01:36:53 04/06/2007 This is a real gem -- "All i can say is 'stupid is as stupid does', and to come into the situation with a 'life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what your gonna get' attitude is not too smart." Isn't it great -- when ya don't have any real argument, just create a diversion by answering the charge with a mouthful of nonsense. And what authority exactly is it that places some duty of due diligence on the victims of a fraudulent or criminal scam? Some sort of wishful thinking? I'm just asking, because I never heard if such a thing. |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 01:39:00 04/06/2007 cheney -- "wow. ya see how things work??? perfect!! i love it when a plan comes together even when it's not my plan!!!" I'm ROTFL, you're so funny!!! |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 07:09:49 04/06/2007 well i'll be darned!!!!!i NEVER thought someone would post and put my name on it!!!!!!! i did respond to a heather comment however if one scrolls back and sees where it says "the guy that got her out of jail..... whats his name todd something???" |
| cheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 07:15:02 04/06/2007 well i'll be darned!!!!!i NEVER thought someone would post and put my name on it!!!!!!! i did respond to a heather comment however if one scrolls back and sees where it says "the guy that got her out of jail..... whats his name todd something???" I NEVER WROTE THAT but i think it is too funny that someone took the time to write a post and put my name on it!!!!i believe when i said what i said about that guy, his girlfriend etc i made it pretty clear as to who it was. i do try to make it obvious without writing names bc for one anyone who has been in the business can figure out who i mean. i choose not to write certain names down even though IT IS ALL TRUE believe me i know. i guess if there is a "cheneywannabe" out there and ya want to take it and run with it GO AHEAD. but i will be on here to monitor "my" comments. certainly no one could know since i also dont link to my e mail. i mean come on how many of us are posting anon??? A LOT!!! |
| AKG |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 09:49:37 04/06/2007 Mary, I actually tried to email you privately and my email was bounced back saying that yours does not exist. Care to give me a correct address? |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:40:26 04/06/2007 AKG, my email address is exactly what I post under. Maybe you're using Outlook when I use Internet Explorer? But that would be on your end, not mine, since I have received some nice emails from my postings already from people who obviously had none of the problems you seems to be having. |
| Mary Katherine Day-Petrano |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:43:43 04/06/2007 Gee Whiz, cheney, or non-cheney, whoever I am speaking with ... BOTH cheney and the non-cheney are funny characters! Will the real cheney please stand up? NOW things are gettin interesting ... |
| therealcheney |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 10:55:49 04/06/2007 well there is only one post on the board that i know of that i did not personally put there. so now i think i will be "therealcheney" until someone who does not have the original thought to make their own name up comes along and steals that too. i guess i should be flattered but i mean come on if i wanted to write that rider's name i would have done it myself and everyone knows who it is anyway that has dealt with "haunt a house heather" i post on this board a lot (now) theres a new one bout commissions which i think you already commented on i believe. I AM THE REAL CHENEY. THE REAL CHENEY HAS STOOD UP. |
| lawstudent |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 11:24:49 04/06/2007 MKDP- I was curious about the federal crime you're referring to on this board since I'm a law student and had never heard of it before you mentioned it. Are you referring to 47 USC 223, Sec. 113, "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005"? I read the text of this law and don't see how it requires someone to disclose their real name "upon demand" of another BB poster. I assumed that what the act calls for is that if the DOJ decides to pursue a complaint brought under this law, that it would be up to the government to investigate and find out who the poster is, rather than that that the person making the complaint has the direct right to make such a demand. Also curious, since you brought up the First Amendment here, if you even personally believe this law is constitutional (I believe there's pending litigation on this issue already). Disappointed that this law has not been discussed in any of my classes :( |
| Jill |
Re: Wellington, you have a Major Scammer lurking in your community (Currently 0 replies)
Posted At 20:26:14 04/06/2007 OK ... it is Easter weekend and I am tired of the personal hassle over this thread ... I am going to erase it as of tomorrow ... anyone that feels the need to copy it for their own records ... have at it. I do not want it brought back up till there is a court hearing and the findings can be reported here if someone wishes to do that. Happy Easter to all ... Jill |