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Q Ms. Hargett, I understand that you have a new address; is that correct? .
A Yes. It was filed and you have a copy.

Q And what is the new address?
A It's just my mailing address. My address that I gave last time is still current. That is my permanent residence. My mailing address is 13833 Wellington Trace E-4 No. 446, Wellington, lorida 33414. It has always been that actually.

Q So is that like a mailbox of some sort?
A (Nod in the positive.)

Q You have to answer out loud.
A Yes.

Q I know we went through the ground rules last time. They're pretty much still the same. Anything you need to answer, go ahead and answer out loud so we can have it for the court reporter. Same thing as far as if you need to take breaks or otherwise. I understand you didn't come with any documents today.
A No. Actually, I did purchase a printer. It is not compatible with the computer. So now I have a computer on the way. So hopefully within a week, I will be able to get that documentation to you. When I print these things out, I go to Office Depot. Printing four pages, not so expensive. Printing 140 pages, a little costly and time consuming and they actually won't let me do that, so --

Q But --
A But working on it. Still making an effort.

Q All right. No problem. Since the last time we met, you haven't located any DVDs on x-rays?
A No. And I did look for the DVDs. I never had copies of x-rays, so I couldn't, obviously, locate those. But I did not find any DVDs. The first video I got was a VHS tape. I don't have a VCR to look at the tapes that I have. It's not labeled. I may have one, but, again, something I'm working on trying to resolve.

Q All right. Don't forget today, even though I know you're going to anticipate my questions --
A Let you finish.

Q -- give Kelly a chance. Because she's the only one that it hurts. It's her fingers and her time. Now, did you make any effort to call Dr. Barber to secure any of the x-rays that he had in his possession that he reviewed for you in this matter?
A Yes. And I have not gotten a response back to the point I'm trying to validate the number I have now.

Q All right. We were going through last week -- let me just go through the purchase agreements here. The purchase agreements we had marked as Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 and Plaintiff's Exhibit 3. The one is -- Purchase Agreement 1 is for Flemmingh. The other one is for Silco. Where did you obtain this form for the purchase agreement?
A It's a generic form that I was sent as a document from Aubrey Hill. I changed it and made it my own.

Q Okay. And how did you change it? What would have been changed?
A It was a Word document. I eliminated things such as when the horses arrived to me out of quarantine. There were certain things they had to meet criteriawise. If the horses weren't sound, they could immediately be shipped to Aubrey Hill. Things like that. Exclusions to purchasing the horses.

Q So what would those exclusions have been? One would be if they were found to not be sound?
A If they were found to be not sound, the money could be returned within 24 hours. We had a day to evaluate the horses, which actually transpired into like a week. Michael did not press the issue. He gave me adequate time to evaluate the horses, do their insurance exams, so on and so forth.

Q When did these horses arrive at your facility, if they were purchased on -- I think the first one was August 1 here. It says they'll be leaving quarantine. Did they actually leave on August 1 or did you get them sooner?
A I'd have to -- it's written on my purchase agreement, which I'll send you a copy of. I'd have to look. They arrived several days before Mr. Buck ever came and saw the horses or met me. They arrived, I'm guessing, a few days towards the end of July, but I'd have to look at the exact date.

Q Okay. And so, therefore --
A I --

Q I'm sorry.
A I do believe I have the quarantine information, so I can tell you pretty much what time they arrived.

Q Do you know how long they had to stay in quarantine?
A Two days.

Q Now -- so you have purchase agreements that were made from Aubrey Hill to you on the four horses that you purchased: Preston, Flemmingh, Silco, and Travis?
A Yes.

Q And then, in turn, you had created purchase agreements to reflect your involvement, as well as the payments to Newman Equestrian?
A Yes. Things that I changed were -- I believe on the copy that I have from Mr. Buck that there is something where it states that he will pay for the expenses on said horses, so on -- oh. "The buyer agrees to pay expenses on said horses as he will be the rightful owner of said horses." Things like that were obviously altered to fit the situation.

Q Okay. And the information that was in the blocking of the name, age, color, breed, sex and size, is that information that was already within the purchase agreement that came from Michael Newman or is this information that you put in?
A That's information -- the way I received the Word document, any place that there is a line and a space is anything that you can change to suit. Like it's a good purchase agreement for me, so I use it for other purposes now.

Q Okay.
A It was a document already set up, so it made it easy for me. Just like going to Office Depot and picking up a generic.

Q Okay.
A So any place that there's a line is where you can go in and change the information easily. And set up to be that way so you could print it out and write on it if need be.

Q But my question is: The information where it says name, age, color, breed, sex, and size, was that already in there from Michael Newman or did you put that information in?
A More than likely, it was probably already there.

Q Okay. Now -- and then you have purchase agreements in your name from Michael Newman reflecting the same information?
A Correct. Mr. Buck was sitting right there when I changed the agreements right in the office.

Q The agreements that you would have received from Michael Newman, were they filled out with the true purchase prices?
A Yes.

Q But Mr. Buck didn't see the true purchase price?
A He did see the true purchase price. The true purchase price for Mr. Buck was $75,000. The true purchase for Heather was $65,000 because I made a commission.

Q But he didn't see the documents that had 65,000?
A No. He didn't ask.

Q Okay. Now, the spreadsheets that you utilized, that you sent to Mr. Buck prior to his getting involved in any investing with you, they didn't include any line items for commissions. Is there any reason you omitted those or didn't include those in the spreadsheets?
A I had somebody at a college help me design the spreadsheet. I'm not all that savvy. And that's what came back and is useful to me.

Q Okay. Now, later when Mr. Buck and you were working on other horses for potential investors, the commission was put in as a line item; is that correct?
A Mr. Buck added that himself, not myself. I did not add that. Mr. Buck added that because he thought it should be on there.

Q He thought it should be on there because he felt that it was important for somebody to know that there's a portion that you're going to be making on the inside?
A No, not on the inside. It was understood, from me to him, that it was easier for him to explain if it was there.

Q Because obviously some new investors would be on notice of that commission?
A No. I'm always clear. It states right in here, I can make 10 percent on the sales.

Q Well, let's talk about where, because I want to be fair to you. Tell me where in your purchase agreement does it talk about that he's paying 10 percent on the purchase of these horses. And we're looking at Exhibits 3 and 1.
A "Once horse is sold, the buyer agrees to pay agent a 10 percent commission on the final sale agreement."

Q That's "once" meaning once you sell it for him, correct?
A Correct.

Q Do you have anything in writing that reflects you told him there would be a commission on the way in of buying the horses?
A I believe when he and I communicated in the beginning on the e-mail I stated, "I only make money on the sales of horses."

Q But is there anything where you outwardly told him --
A I understood it to be understood.

Q Okay. Is there anything in writing where you explained to him, This is how much I will be taking, 10 percent, 12 percent, 15 percent, whatever that number may be, on the sale of the horse that he was buying, Silco and Flemmingh?
A On the front side, no. Again, I understood it to already be a given. I told him I make money on the sales of horses.

Q Okay.
A He didn't ask for elaborate details.

Q Okay.
A Again, I didn't provide elaborate details in the spreadsheets. I didn't feel like it was necessary.

Q Now, let's look at the bill of sale. This is Plaintiff's Exhibit 2 and Plaintiff's Exhibit from the prior deposition on February 26th. Now, would the same be true with respect to getting the forms and then you completing this, or did these come directly from Michael Newman?
A Those came from Michael Newman.

Q Okay. And so Michael Newman has in his possession these documents that say 65,000, 65,000?
A He should. Because these did not come to me as a Word document. These came to me in the mail.

Q When you say "these," you're talking about Exhibits 2 and 4?
A Yes.

Q So, therefore, he would have placed all this information in?
A Correct.

Q Do you have any idea why the information for Silco is not accurate? And what I mean by that is that it has the wrong breed and -- the wrong breed on this one. It has the wrong size on Flemmingh. Do you know why that is?
A The wrong size is -- I'm assuming, that Mr. Newman actually didn't see the horses once they arrived. When he came to see the horses and meet me, he was astonished at how big the one was and how much smaller the other one was. So that's why it says "approximately." It's not like those horses are 15 hands. And the date, I'm assuming -- because when I saw that, I questioned it myself. I'm assuming he probably printed them up at the same time and just didn't change the date. I received them in the mail at the same time.

Q But you didn't call him and say, these bill of sales have some inaccuracies on them, as far as the heights and the breeds?
A No, I did not.

Q You understand that Silco is not a Dutch Warmblood, correct?
A I'd have to look at his passport to see what he is.

Q You told my client he was a Holsteiner?
A That's probably valid via his passport. I deal with a lot of horses. They are all warmbloods from Europe. So I would have to look at his passport. Two were Westfalen. I'd have to look at Silco's passport. And, yes, Flemmingh is Dutch. And I only know that because I know the stallion.

Q Did you know that Silco was actually 8 years old and not 9 years old at the time that you bought him?
A No.

Q Okay.
A His passport says he's 9.

Q His passport said that he was 9?
A Uh-huh.

Q How about Flemmingh? Is the age correct on Flemmingh?
A As far as I know. Again, I'd have to look at his passport, which I don't have a copy of. I did question Mr. Newman about the passport of Silco because it didn't match his -- his markings didn't match his breeding and his age, but that's what came to me.

Q And what did he explain to you?
A He said, "Sometimes they -- it -- sometimes they come from Europe that way." And he didn't really have a way to change it, he didn't think. And because he was a gelding, it shouldn't really effect me.

Q Now, you said Michael Newman came to your farm at the time that you were buying these horses?
A After they were purchased.

Q When about was that? How far after the purchase?
A He could probably tell you specifically, but I'm assuming within 30 days he came to visit Wellington.

Q And when he came to visit, he scheduled an appointment with you?
A Yeah. He stopped by to say hello and see the horses.

Q Okay. Now, during this period of time -- in this 30-day period of time, you had already known that Flemmingh had a problem with the shoe issue; is that correct?
A Yes.

Q And did you have any discussion with Mr. Newman -- I'm talking about in person when he came to your farm -- with respect to how Flemmingh was and his soreness issues?
A At the time, I didn't discuss it at length because we were under the assumption it was just a abscess brewing. His farrier was the first farrier to work on the horse when the horse pulled the shoe off. My farrier was not in town. I called him because I don't -- I figured that's who would have worked on the horse if he had had him. He sent his farrier by. They tacked the shoe on. Two weeks later, we were still having some soreness issues. Jack Miller came, worked on the horse, pulled the shoe off. We were soaking the foot, so on and so forth.

Q Okay. Who was his farrier that stopped by?
A Michael Brongers (phonetic), I believe. And I don't know how to spell his last name. He's French, if that helps.

Q How is it that Michael Newman had a blacksmith down here in Wellington?
A His farrier lives in Wellington. He travels to Pace to shoe his horses.

Q And so he came out. You told him that the shoe had ripped off. I presume that you told Michael that and that's how you got to the blacksmith?
A Correct.

Q Okay. And so the blacksmith came out and tacked the shoe back on?
A Correct.

Q Did he make any discussions with respect to whether or not the toe clip penetrated or the side clips or anything of that sort?
A I didn't ask him to speculate. The horse's foot was bleeding, so I was pretty sure the foot was penetrated. That's why we were soaking his foot.

Q Where was the bleeding coming from?
A The outside hoof wall.

Q When you say "outside hoof wall," can you describe for me, because obviously a jury doesn't understand. So help --
A Outside to the front corner. If you're looking at a clock, I would say one- to two o'clock.

Q And it was bleeding --
A If you were looking down on top of his foot.

Q Okay. So if you're looking down on top of his foot, you're saying where one o'clock would be and you're saying on the outside of the hoof wall, not on the bottom, not on the sole, but you're talking about on the top?
A No, no. On the sole. His sole was bleeding. I don't think the top of their foot can bleed.

Q I didn't think so either, but they're your words not mine.
A Maybe I'm not describing it well.

Q Let me try again.
A If you're holding his foot up and you're looking down on his foot, between one- and two o'clock. Is that more clear?

Q Absolutely. Did he have any comments to you with respect to any damage that the -- let me take that -- let me strike that. What actually caused the damage? Was it the toe clip, the side clip? Was it the nails?
A He only had a toe clip. No side clip. And he didn't have nail holes there, so my evaluation was he stood on the toe clip when he pulled the shoe off.

Q Okay.
A Mr. Brongers put the hoof testers on the horse and actually did not get much of a response. So he felt like we would be fine. That's why he put the shoe on instead of having me soak it longer.

Q How long had you soaked it prior to the farrier coming out?
A Every day, three to four times a day.

Q I mean, how many days? Was it three days, four days, five days, a week, two weeks?
A I'd say four days roughly.

Q After he tacked the shoe on, did the horse walk off sound?
A Walked off sound, yes.

Q And then when did you next recognize that there might be a potential problem?
A When we started riding him, he would still, going -- tracking to the right -- no. Sorry. Tracking to the left. If he started out going left, he would still take a few questionable steps. Going right, he felt a hundred percent. I under -- you know, my assumption -- and, again, going with the farrier saying that his foot was not that sore, toughen up a little, he was in aluminum shoes in the sand for the first time, it takes some time. So moderate work, but continued on. Continued soaking his foot, packing his foot, treating his foot.

Q And at the time he did not have any side clips, he only had toe clips?
A We changed him into side clips.

Q When did you change him into the side clips?
A The next time he had shoes put on, two weeks later.

Q Septemberish, somewhere in that time frame?
A I'd have to look. I have a record of -- but if you want me to be accurate for this -- if I knew the date, I would tell you.

Q Okay. When you came to Florida for the last five years, where would you stable? We know where you stabled this time. You stabled with Shoshana Gordon. Where would you stable in the years past?
A I rented a place in Loxahatchee one year.

Q What was the name of that place?
A It didn't have a name. It was a private facility. I just rented the stalls there. I rented a barn on Draft Horse one year, just two stalls. I rented a place in Saddle Trail. I've rented a barn everywhere, always taking care of my own horses.

Q How about La Victoria? Have you ever been at La Victoria?
A Yes. I rented at La Victoria.

Q Now, let's kind of get in the meat and potatoes of where we were trying to get to last time. When Mr. Buck was interested in the horse Flemmingh -- I'm going to try to do this horse by horse, Flemmingh, Silco, so we can stay on the same topic. When Mr. Buck was interested in investing in horses, you had told him that the first time that you rode Flemmingh was on August 3rd of 2006. Do you remember having an e-mail to him in that regard?
A That sounds -- that sounds fairly accurate.

Q Okay. And you don't know from the time of August 3rd, when you first rode the horse, when the horses actually arrived to your farm from quarantine, using that date?
A If I rode them -- I would say August 1st, then, is when they arrived. I will verify that, though.

Q I understand that Mr. Buck actually paid for Flemmingh on August 2nd of 2006, that he sent the wire to Newman Equestrian?
A Mr. Buck did not pay for the horse prior to me riding him. That is for sure not correct information. The horse would have arrived on the farm before August 1st. Then he was ridden well before Mr. Buck paid for the horse.

Q Okay.
A I would not have him pay for a horse that had not been ridden. Matter of fact, our last deposition, I told you I jumped him several times before he was paid for.

Q That's what I'm trying to verify. So if you told him in an e-mail the first time you rode Flemmingh was on August 3rd, then you would have been incorrect?
A Yes. I don't believe that's correct information. I don't think I told him the first time I rode the horse was August 3rd.

Q Did you advise Mr. Buck on August 12th in an e-mail that the description for Flemmingh was 16.1 hands, 7-year-old, bay gelding, he's beautiful and very simple to ride, extremely quiet, not spooky, great mover, good jumper, eligible for all divisions at the horse show, but ready to do the three-six, he could live at home, does not need a professional ride? Do you remember providing that description to Mr. Buck?
A Absolutely.

Q Did you understand why he was asking for that description of the horse?
A So that he could promote those horses to other investors.

Q Now, at the time that you advised him of this on August 12th of 2006, how much experience did you have with Flemmingh jumping three-foot-six? I know you told me at the time you were evaluating him you did one or two jumps at three-foot-six; is that correct?
A Correct.

Q How much more did you do with Flemmingh between August 3rd or August 2nd, whenever those first rides were, and August 12th to provide this description that he would be ready to do the three-foot-six?
A I did as much as I could. We built up a little every day up until he pulled the shoe off. The horse was very easy and walked right down to three-foot-six the first time without batting an eye and was overqualified for the job with his scope and his step.

Q When you say "overqualified," what do you mean?
A Meaning you could build the jump a little bigger and pull the lines out to where his step had to be longer and it was a easy job for the horse.

Q Now, what type of jumps were you jumping him over when -- in this beginning? Were you jumping walls and roll tops and things of that sort?
A Yes.

Q Did he ever spook or stop at any of the jumps?
A No. Matter of fact, he jumped the liver pool, just for whatever reason.

Q Okay. When did he actually pull -- when did he actually pull the shoe and step on the toe clip in response to -- I'm trying to understand the days.
A Yeah. I'd have to go back and look at the e-mails. You have a copy of the e-mails. You can probably tell me.

Q It's not in the e-mails. That's why I'm asking you.
A I'd have to go back and look. I have a record of when he got shod. I could look at that and tell you.

Q The first record I show with Jack Miller for his shoeing was on September 17th.
A I would have to look at the shoeing record. Jack was not my regular farrier at that time. He came and shod the horse for Jeff Channell, who I did not get billed for the day that Jack Miller shod the horse. So I would have to go back and look. I feel sure it was prior to September 17th.

Q You didn't let me finish. The first bill with Jack Miller was September 17th. Where in proximity to that time frame had he been shod before that?
A I'm guessing. I'm estimating two weeks prior, maybe three. Jack Miller was not my regular farrier. When I called Jeff Channell after the horse had pulled the shoe off, after Michael Brongers came and worked on the horse and said we were having some problems, he sent Jack by to shoe the horse. I did not receive a bill from that. Jeff billed me later for that and traded it out with Jack.

Q All right. Now, last time we met, you had told me that after he pulled the toe clip that you tried to maintain him for about two weeks seeing if it would work itself out?
A Two weeks, maybe even a little longer. Because we continued soaking the foot. And he didn't take bad steps every single day and he didn't take bad steps ever going to the right, only going left. And it wasn't every step. It was very marginal. He very much acted like a horse with a little bit of a sore foot. Somebody that had stubbed their toe, it doesn't necessarily stop you from walking around every day and doing your job, but it's a little sore.

Q Were you still riding him during this time? .
A Moderately, yes. He never stopped work until the vet told me we should. Most of time they say see if you can work through it.

Q Did you advise Mr. Buck in an e-mail on August 15 that the horses were wonderful and four separate customers were coming that week to look at them?
A Yes. I feel sure I did.

Q And you felt that Flemmingh was capable of being looked at, at that time frame, for potential purchasers with the foot condition?
A Yes. Again, it was marginal. The horse was 99 percent sound and most people that are horseman that are coming to try horses understand that sometimes they pull shoes off and step on toe clips and they understand and can see past that. So yes.

Q Did you advise Mr. Buck on August 15th that the average commission would be 15 percent on sales?
A I would have to look at an e-mail. My discussion with Mr. Buck was him and I would have a 10 percent commission. If he wanted to bring outside investors to the table, that the going rate for commissions was 15 percent up to 20 percent, I didn't feel comfortable charging people 20 percent, but that if he was going to bring other investors to the table that, yes, we could up the commission to 15 percent and he and I would split that. Because that was the going rate. The 10 percent was way on the low side.

Q Did you advise Mr. Buck on August 18th of 2006 that the horses were fabulous that morning when you rode them?
A I feel sure I did.

Q Tell me what you mean when you're telling Mr. Buck that the horses were fabulous. What were you trying to convey when you were providing that information?
A Every day they kept getting better and better. Silco's training kept improving for a job that he hadn't done. He was coming leaps and bounds. And Flemmingh pretty much didn't have any -- he didn't have any bad days other than soundness issues. His attitude was flawless. His temperament was perfect. He was a happy horse.

Q Did you advise Mr. Buck at the same time on August 18th that you had a legitimate customer coming on Wednesday, August 23rd, 2006 to look at both horses? .
A If that's what the e-mails says, I feel sure I did.

Q Do you remember who that legitimate customer was?
A No. I'd have to look at the e-mail. I had a lot of customers through the barn in August and September.

Q Now, I understand that -- you would agree that Mr. Buck told you on August 18th that if his horses had sold that he wanted to go ahead and take a $100,000 and buy the best horse on the new list that you provided him?
A Correct.

Q Okay. And do you remember: Was it this list here that you provided to him with regard to other potential horses that were for sale?
A Correct.

Q Now, the list that you provided him is -- are these horses that you had looked or investigated as potential horses that you may want to buy at some point?
A Yes.

Q And did you provide him photographs of some of these horses with respect to their looks?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And the horses on the list, had they been horses that you just cold-called on or were they horses that you had actually gone out and visited with and saw their qualifications?
A Various of both. Mostly horses that I had been sent tapes of. A few that I had ridden.

Q Now, based on the list that you gave him on August 18th, somewhere in that time frame, the list that you're looking at, Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 6, how -- you've given him kind of projections, if you will, what the purchase price is, as well as what you think that their sale price would be; is that correct?
A Correct.

Q Now, some of horses you have made comments about "from Holland" or "from Germany". Are those horses that were actually in Holland and Germany at this time, in other words, that they would be expected to be brought over to the United States?
A Mostly, yes.

Q And --
A Some of them were here.

Q Okay. And "here" meaning in the United States?
A Yes.

Q Now, of those horses, even though you have a purchase price there, would there be expectations that there's additional charges on top of that purchase price or did you already build in the travelling and quarantine and things of that sort?
A With this, I believe he received a spreadsheet outlining the expenses on all these horses.

Q But my question is: This list that you've provided, if we were to look at -- let's use Jedi, since he's No. 1. If Jedi was purchased at a hundred thousand -- was Jedi in Holland?
A No. He was here in the U.S.

Q If he was to purchase him for a hundred thousand or anyone purchased him for a hundred thousand, did they also have to pay shipping fees and vetting fees and things of that sort or was that already built into the purchase price?
A Vetting would be on top. Shipping -- most of the horses from Europe I try to make the people from Europe ship the horses to us.

Q Of that list, you would -- do you know what type of commissions you would have made? And what I mean by that is: Is the 10 percent already built in this number or do you tell him it's a hundred and then you have to pay me X amount of commission?
A Depending on the horse. Jedi, a hundred thousand would not pay me and I probably would not make a commission. Bentley, that does not include a commission for me. Starfish did not include a commission for me. Most of these horses did not include a commission. Oz did include a commission. It was a 65,000-dollar horse. It just depends on the horse.

Q And what I mean by that is: When you say it does or doesn't meaning -- when you say it doesn't include a commission, is that meaning that they're going to pay that on top or are you saying that because they're going to buy this horse, you're not going to charge them commission?
A When the horses get to be a hundred thousand or more, sometimes I don't charge a commission. On Starfish, for $175,000, I'm not going to ask an investor to pay a commission.

Q You're just going to assume you're going to make your money on the way out the door?
A Correct.

Q What about on --
A The longer term projects, when I know people are going to have to sit on them for a year, sometimes those are the sacrifices you make.

Q That was going to be -- I'm looking on your list here. How about Brisant? You have Brisant is an 8-year-old from Holland that was $40,000 to purchase. Is that something -- you said a resale of not less than a hundred thousand. Is that considered a long-term or is that already something that's ready to go and get sold?
A That one is a long-term project.

Q So would you have taken a commission on Brisant at $40,000?
A Yes. There was a commission built into that.

Q Okay. And the same thing, 10 percent?
A Actually, that one, 35,000 to 40 -- no. $5,000 commission.

Q Okay. And what type of horse was Brisant?
A I would have to go back and look. It's a warmblood of some sort.

Q Was it a pony or a horse?
A It's a pony.

Q And did you ever end up having an investor buy Brisant at any time?
A No. But I'm actually still looking at him and his price has gone down a little.

Q What has his price gone down to?
A Twenty-five now.

Q Where was it then?
A Thirty-five.

Q Okay. Now, did anyone ever buy any horses off that list, as far as any investors, since the time Mr. Buck was involved?
A No.

Q So you haven't bought any of these horses?
A No. I haven't bought any other horses since Mr. Buck got involved.

Q Now, with respect to some of these horses that were overseas, did you ever go to the locations overseas to look at these horses?
A No. I didn't have an investor to buy them.

Q I understand. Well, you recently had a trip over, you said, to Germany; is that correct?
A Yeah. Most of those horses are no longer available, if any of them. Bentley got sold. Lence got sold. Rampallo is still available. We decided we didn't like him. Talladega was not available. Isopaya was not available. I tried to go see those two. They were sold. Oz, couldn't tell you where Oz is. Exception was sold. Winston was sold. So most of those horses, no -- if you don't buy them in a certain period of time, they're gone.

Q What -- when you went over to Germany, you said you also went over to Denmark as well?
A Yes.

Q Did you visit the farm where some of these horses had come from?
A No. Not to my knowledge.

Q Does the name "Benny De Ruiter Stables" ring a bell? Did you go visit with them?
A No. I tried to. I couldn't get an e-mail back from him.

Q Now, did you tell Mr. Buck that the horses were fabulous on August 23rd and there were customers coming back on August 24th to view them?
A If that's what the e-mail says, then, yes, I feel sure I said it. I don't have a copy of the e-mails in front of me.

Q Do you recall what people came on August 23rd and August 24th to see Silco and Flemmingh?
A I'd have to go back and look.

Q What would you need to go back and look at that would tell you that information?
A I typically keep a record of who comes in and out. I don't know if I kept a record at that time. I've started doing that since all of this drama came up. But I had a lot of people in and out of the barn over the course of August and September. I had other agents coming in daily to see the horses.

Q Did you advise Mr. Buck on August 24th that Flemmingh's feet are a little sore, just an adjustment to the sand, no big deal?
A I feel sure I did.

Q You also told him that people were standing in line, on August 24th, to buy Flemmingh?
A Yes. There were people that loved that horse and were waiting for his feet to no longer be sore. They waited for months.

Q Did you say in an e-mail to Mr. Buck on August 24th that you -- quote, "I think he will be done next week," end quote?
A You're sitting there looking at the e-mails. I don't have a copy. So I have to assume that, yes, that's what you're reading.

Q I have e-mails here and you have e-mails. I'm asking you --
A I don't have it in front of me, so I don't -- I can't really answer that and swear my life on it. But I am assuming that, yes, if you're reading it right off the e-mail that, yes, that's what I said.

Q So what you're saying is: If there's e-mails that reflect each of these statements, then --
A I did not openly lie to Mr. Buck, is what I'm saying. Whatever I communicated to him on the e-mails is what happened.

Q I'm not implying that you're lying. I'm trying to understand when you told him certain things and when you didn't. So that's not the premise of my asking the question. My premise is to understand if these, in fact, were your words.
A Again, I don't have the e-mail in front of me, so I can't swear my life on it. But I am assuming that you can read that and tell me the answer.

Q Well, here's page 27 of 91 of the e-mails and I've highlighted the August 24th date. If you could, just tell me if that, in fact, was your e-mail --
A Yes.

Q -- that says that.
A

Q We talked about -- you had called me, remember, last week talking to me about Sal Capone, or two weeks ago?
A Yes.

Q Let me show you an e-mail that is page 6 of 91, a compilation of e-mails, and ask you if that's your e-mail that provided the list of references to Mr. Buck?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And who is Shoshana Gordon?
A A friend.

Q And do you-all still have a working relationship?
A No.

Q Why not?
A Because all this is very dramatic. I don't want any of my friends involved.

Q So you've chosen to pull away from the friendship?
A I walked away.

Q And that included issues with her horse as well?
A What issues?

Q In other words, she had a horse with you, correct?
A Correct.

Q Okay. And that was Preston?
A No.

Q Travis?
A No.

Q Okay. What horse did she have with you?
A No horses that are related to this.

Q Okay. You told me last time we met that Shoshana Gordon had purchased Travis?
A No, I did not.

Q Maybe I misunderstood you then. Did Shoshana Gordon purchase Travis, Preston, Flemmingh, or Silco?
A Preston.

Q Okay. So -- I'm sorry.
A And I made no money. It had nothing to do with me.

Q I understand. And you didn't make a commission on that?
A Correct.

Q Did she work directly with Michael Newman or did you do that for her?
A She worked directly with Michael Newman, as did Marc Buck.

Q When you say "as did Marc Buck," you feel Marc Buck worked directly with Michael Newman?
A I provided him the bank information. That's all I did with Shoshana. She did not speak with Michael Newman either.

Q I'm trying to understand the difference. So you were, effectively, Shoshana's agent as well for that deal?
A Correct.

Q And so you provided her the wire information?
A Correct.

Q That was the extent of her involvement in purchasing Preston?
A Correct.

Q You have here, "Jeff Channell, fellow horse associate." How is he related? I think you told me last time he's your blacksmith?
A Yes.

Q And Peter King was an investor?
A Yes.

Q He's the one you currently have an issue with now, I understand, with a horse by the name of "Bernesto"?
A I object. That's irrelevant to this.

Q Well, it is relevant. And the question is --
A Well, I object.

Q Okay. Well, you still have to answer the question.
A Yes, he was an investor.

Q Okay. And you still have to answer the question. You can object. And then the judge -- you still have to answer it and the judge will decide whether or not it can be used or not. That's how an objection is done.
A I didn't answer the questions last time because he hadn't ruled on it.

Q I'm explaining to you, if you make an objection, you still have to answer the question and the judge will decide whether or not it's stricken from the transcript. That's how the law works. I don't -- you know, we're not going to keep coming back time and time again, because you're going to end up paying for all this stuff, and that's what's going to happen if you're obstructing our ability to do discovery. Now, I understand that Peter King owned a horse by the name of "Bernesto"; is that correct?
A Yes.

Q And Bernesto was sold sometime last year to an individual through Vivianne Kassin?
A Yes.

Q And you didn't pay for -- you didn't pay Mr. King for Bernesto; is that what I understand?
A That's incorrect and I object.

Q How did you pay Mr. King?
A I object to anything relating to Peter King. Peter King has nothing to do with Marc Buck. And I won't answer any questions like that. One has nothing to do with the other. We are here to discuss Flemmingh, Silco, and Marc Buck.

Q Okay. Well, we're here to discuss anything that goes to the issues that have been alleged against you and one of those also involves Mr. King as well. You used Mr. King in this to have as a reference to Mr. Buck; is that correct?
A Correct.

Q Okay. So you actually invited Mr. King into Mr. Buck's life by giving the name and phone number; isn't that correct?
A In August, correct.

Q Okay. And do you know what information Peter King advanced to Mr. Buck when they communicated back in August?
A No, I don't.

Q Now, did you know that a lawsuit has been filed against you in West Palm Beach regarding Peter King?
A Yes, I do.

Q Have you been served with that lawsuit?
A Yes, I have.

Q Who is Nolia Brandt?
A Business contact. Somebody that I met that was helping me with some business paperwork.

Q Is she the one that helped you with the spreadsheets?
A No.

Q And who is Catherine Cuzzone?
A A friend.

Q And when you say have worked on -- worked for on occasion, is she somewhat related to the horse industry?
A She owns horses, but I did not work for her in any horse capacity whatsoever. I ran errands for her after my surgery.

Q Well, how would she be able to provide a reference to who you are in the horse business to Mr. Buck?
A She wasn't there to do that. I didn't say -- I did not say horse associate.

Q Now, the references that Mr. Buck asked you for, did you understand he wanted to know information about people who would know you and the reputation you have in the horse industry?
A He asked me for a list of references. That's what I provided him. He called those people. He then purchased horses.

Q And who is Sal Capone to you?
A A friend.

Q And is he at all related to horses?
A No. Mr. Buck knew that.

Q Okay.
A He could have asked any of those people, though. That is his job as due diligence.

Q So it's Mr. Buck's responsibility to look into your references and determine whether or not these individuals have information that are going to help him confirm that you are the person you say you are?
A Absolutely. Why ask for a reference otherwise.

Q Do you provide references to other people?
A If asked to, yes.

Q Okay. Did you receive Mr. Channell's permission to list his name as a reference for Mr. Buck?
A Yes, I did.

Q Now, if Mr. Channell takes the position that he never gave you permission to use his name other than to Peter King, will he be mistaken?
A Yes, he will. I don't -- I always call and ask people to use them as a reference before I use them. It's common courtesy. Were these people asked if their numbers could be printed on the Internet? No. That was not -- that was private information given to somebody to ask for a reference. It was not disclosed in any way, shape, or form to be publicly printed on the Internet. That would be people's complaint.

Q Do you understand that e-mails -- there's nothing private about e-mails?
A I understand that it's common courtesy to not print people's cell phones numbers on the Internet. That's what I understand. At the time, no, I would not have given that information if I knew it was okay for him to publicly print other people's phone numbers on the Internet. So, no, I did not understand that.

Q My question is: Do you understand that e-mail correspondence is public knowledge?
A Now I do. At the time, no. Otherwise, he would not have been provided with that information that way. Never in a million years. That is disrespectful to anybody and everybody that is on that list.

Q Okay. And I'm not asking about the references. I'm asking about e-mails in general. Do you understand that e-mails in and of themselves are out there in the public for the public to see regardless of what the content is?
A No, I did not.

Q And did you ever make any notation on any of your e-mails or make any discussions in writing with Mr. Buck that this information that you-all were sharing back and forth was personal or confidential in any way?
A Yes. Matter of fact, I made him remove the photos and all of the horses that he had posted on the Internet. Those were not our horses. He was advertising them as if they were already our horses to be purchased.

Q And is that the only time that you had that discussion with him, as far as the information back and forth, that you were expecting it to be kept in a confidential nature?
A I'd have to go back and look. I'm not sure.

Q Okay.
A I'm sure anything I deemed as unsatisfactory respectwise I would have brought to his attention.

Q I mean, it's fair to say that the way you do your business is through correspondence with the Internet?
A Up until now, no, it had never been.

Q Meaning up until the time you met Mr. Buck?
A Yeah. Up until that last summer when I was seeking out investors, I had never done business via the Internet.

Q I guess maybe that wasn't a good question on my part. When you decided to seek investors, you understood that you were posting an ad on the Internet for all to see and whoever wanted to respond with the potential to invest with you?
A Correct. That's why they respond to anonymous e-mails, so that I can weed out the people that I think are just weirdos.

Q And you were able to find certain individuals, through your advertisements on the Internet, who ultimately purchased horses with you and invested with you?
A Correct.

Q One of those would have been Peter King?
A Yes.

Q One of those would have been Mr. King, Herb King?
A Correct.

QNow, the horse -- you told me in the last deposition that the reason why Chaplain had left was because of this lawsuit?
A Yes.

Q And I didn't explore that with you. My question is: Did you walk away from Chaplain or did they choose to walk away?
A I chose not to put up a fight. I didn't even send them a last bill. So, yes, I walked away.

Q Now, Herb --
A It was a mutual walking, I feel sure.

Q Now, Herb King is the father of Peter King; is that correct?
A Correct.

Q And at the time that they pulled Chaplain away from you was at the time that Peter King was in a dispute with you over the payment of Bernesto, was it not?
A Correct.

Q So it wasn't just this lawsuit that came about, it was also having to do with the fact that you had other issues with Peter King?
A No, not correct.

Q Why is that?
A Peter King didn't have any issues with me until Marc Buck brought a lawsuit on. Peter King had been tried to get paid and Peter King has not provided business information for his banking to get paid for the horse. Peter King did not own the horse. A business did. A business insured the horses. The horses were not owned directly by Peter King, and Peter King has yet to provide the proper information to get paid. It has to go to a business, not directly to Peter King, because I don't know who the business is. Peter King was tried to get paid via my attorney.

Q Okay. When did you have disputes with Peter King about however the payment was? When did all that start? Wasn't that before this lawsuit?
A No.

Q When was that?
A Peter King came and tried -- I think Chaplain was taken around February 4th or so.

Q And how long had you been working with Peter King to get him paid prior to February 4th?
A Quite some time.

Q Okay.
A But there was no dispute.

Q Okay. How long had you-all been trying to work on getting payment?
A Quite some time. I would have to go back and look. I don't have the information. So when you ask me again to be more specific after I've already said that, it's because I'd have to go back and look. I can't give you a date and then have you come back and tell me I'm lying. I would have to go back and look.

Q That's fine. I understand. Now, the dispute with Mr. King and his getting paid, or at least the working on his getting paid, that actually went prior to January -- prior to you going to Europe; is that correct?
A Again, there was no dispute. The information provided was inaccurate on multiple occasions.

Q Okay. So you're --
A There was no dispute. Everything was very cordial up and still beyond February 4th.

Q And so, at this point, you're making arrangements to pay some corporation that Mr. King has as it relates to Bernesto?
A Correct.

Q All right. We kind of breezed over on Exhibit No. 7 on the e-mail. Did you tell Mr. Buck on August 24th that "I think he will be done next week"?
A Yes, I did.

Q Okay.
A I think. I don't have a crystal ball, but that's what I thought.

Q And what made you think that at that time on August 24th that within seven days this horse is going to be sold?
A Because the horse had been flawless. His feet were a little bit sore, but we were working around the clock to make that horse as comfortable as possible.

Q When you say "I think he'll be done next week," you didn't have an actual person in mind during that time frame or you did?
A No. I believe people had just been there. As you have already stated, people were there on August 23rd and again on August 24th. I had an agent working with me that was just as confident about the scenario.

Q And that did not end up materializing?
A No. The horse was lame.

Q Did they come back and look at the horse?
A I believe they were there again on the 24th.

Q And on the 24th, that's when you're telling him you think it will get done the following week?
A Correct.

Q Now, when the following week comes along, what occurred that --
A The horse deteriorated.

Q And how did he deteriorate in that week?
A One specific day -- I don't know the day -- customers were coming in the afternoon. I took the horse out in the morning to ride him to make sure that he was going to be just perfect, had his little routine. I rode him maybe ten minutes, just enough, walk, trot, stretch his legs, canter around, jump a few little tiny jumps. Put the lady right on him in the afternoon and she trotted two circles and got off because he was lame.

Q We were talking earlier that you had some discussion with Mr. Buck. On August 26th, is that the e-mail you were talking about when you told Mr. Buck to -- that people Google names of horses to check up on their show record and their history and not to use their actual names?
A Say that again.

Q Is that -- you were just telling me earlier that you had told Mr. Buck to take some photographs off of the Internet. Does this e-mail reflect that discussion where you told him that people can Google names of horses to find out their show history and their record?
A I don't know what it says about show record. I told him I thought that that was portraying the horses as our own and they were not. I don't think I said anything -- it doesn't have anything to do with their show record. But, yes, if people Google those horses names and it came up and it looks like we already own them, you can't do that.

Q So these were -- in what you were referring to, these were horses that you-all had hoped, with the right investor, you would have gone and bought?
A Correct. If we had somebody that was going to come along to purchase a horse that we would investigate that list further and explore the options of purchasing some of those horses.

Q And, in fact, if these names were posted on the Internet and people Googled them, they may very well be able to go to those sites themselves and purchase the horses for less money?
A No, that is not what I said.

Q I'm not asking you if that's what you said. Was it your understanding at this time that people can Google a horse's name and find the horse themselves and cut out the middleman?
A No, that was not my under -- no, that was not at all.

Q That wasn't what your intent was when you were telling him people can Google the name?
A Absolutely not. No. It was to protect the actual owners of the horses.

Q Okay.
A No. Because you can Google a horse's name and you know as well as I do any of the horses that come from Europe, half of them all have the same name. So, no, there is no validity to that. You don't even know that it's the same horse. But in respect to the people that actually own those horses, you can't advertise somebody else's horse for sale.

Q Well, certainly if somebody Googled their name and matched the picture up to the name on the picture, they could very well figure out where the horse came from?
A Sure.

Q Some of the horses on the list -- like Rampallo was a horse that I found on the Internet located in Virginia that matched the same picture that you showed Mr. Buck?
A Correct.

Q And at the time that you had discussed with Mr. Buck about a potential purchasing of Rampallo, you had him as $75,000 to purchase; is that correct?
A Correct.

Q But on the Internet he's always been listed as 55,000. Did you know that?
A No, I did not. I went and tried the horse in November of last year and he was not priced at 55,000 to me. He was priced at 75,000 to me.

Q And where did you try him?
A Whatever the girl's farm is. Right where he still is. I don't believe he's moved, actually. And Shoshana went and tried him for me when she was up in the area, and it did not go well. The horse did not go well and he was immediately removed from any list I had regarding an investment. The horse didn't have a lead change when I went to try him and that was a concern. And when she was in the area, I took advantage of it and sent her to ride the horse. She couldn't get the lead changes, so I deemed it as a not-so-saleable horse.

Q And what state did you try him in?
A Virginia.

Q How about the horses Winston -- you never went and tried Winston; is that correct?
A Nope.

Q And you had Winston for sale on your list for $50,000; is that correct?
A That's correct. That's what I was quoted from whoever sent me the information on the horses.

Q And when you say "whoever," you didn't --
A I think you type in "Benny" or "info at."

Q Okay. For Benny De Ruiter?
A Correct.

Q So the fact that he says he's always had the horse at 25,000 U.S. dollars, then he is mistaken and he actually changed the price?
A The horse was priced to me at 50. You're asking me. I'm testifying. This is under oath. I was told the horse would cost $50,000. Did he mark it up because I'm an American? I have no idea. I do know, however, that when I contacted him to actually go see the horses, I got no response back. I think he wants you just to buy the horses off the Internet. I have since seen Exception sold on his Web site and then advertised on warmbloods.com for $13,000. And she wasn't priced to me that way either. So, yes, when you're dealing with people overseas, those are people I would no longer deal with.

Q So you acknowledge that horses prices can change?
A Absolutely.

Q Now, when you made the contact with Michael Newman, had you ever talked to Michael Newman ever before the deal with these horses?
A I don't think so.

Q So this was your first involvement with him?
A Correct.

Q And your involvement for the most part was done over the telephone and e-mails?
A Oh, correct. Absolutely.

Q Now, what about Michael Newman made you believe that this man is a reputable individual that is selling horses here in the United States?
A Because he let the horses come to the farm and let me ride them and evaluate them without any type of pressure whatsoever. And the horses spoke for themselves.

Q And what about Flemmingh made him worth $75,000?
A His temperament, his attitude, his looks, his jump, his movement, his rideability, all of it.

Q And I know that you ultimately -- that $65,000 was the ultimate price that Mr. Newman received that you told us last time. Did you ever try to negotiate the prices of Silco and Flemmingh?
A My negotiation with Mr. Newman was allowing the horses to come to the farm.

Q But you didn't actually negotiate with him to lower any of the prices; is that correct? .
A Once I had asked for the horses to come to the farm, no. If I had wanted to negotiate on the money, the horses would have needed to go to him. It's just common courtesy. You can only negotiate on so many things.

Q Well, you were buying four horses, correct, essentially?
A Correct.

Q And you were certainly in a better bargaining power to negotiate on four horses?
A Correct.

Q And you didn't feel that you should negotiate at all the four purchase prices that were quoted to you?
A Not when it took 30 days to get the horses paid for, no. I felt like they went above and beyond the call of duty.

Q But if you had paid for the horses in one lump sum, would you have expected some courtesy of negotiations?
A I don't know. The scenario did not present itself.

Q Were you ever told at any time, other than the discussion you and I had, that these horses were ever priced at a price lower than the numbers that you paid for those four horses?
A Absolutely not.

Q Did you -- when you communicated with Michael Newman, did you explain to him that you were an amateur seeking to buy horses for yourself?
A Correct.

Q Is there any way in your mind that Mr. Newman took advantage of you or changed the purchase prices because you were an amateur shopping on your own?
A I suppose it's possible. I'd like to think that I've been in the horse business long enough to know what the value of horses should be. So I wasn't -- I wasn't concerned at the time about that.

Q So you felt that when they stepped on your property they were worth the dollars that they quoted you?
A Correct. The only one I questioned was the young one, which was why I didn't have an investor buy it, because it was 3.

Q And which one was that?
A Preston. That's why Shoshana bought that one. I would not have had an investor purchase that horse. I would have sent it back. .

Q How did you learn that Flemmingh was a Dutch Warmblood and Silco was a Holsteiner?
A Their passports.

Q Okay. Did they have any other papers that came with them other than their passports?
A I believe they had a piece of paper stating that their blood work was fine.

Q What did you do, if anything, to verify their lineage?
A Nothing. Truthfully, I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Q Now, Mr. Buck bought some equipment for Silco and Flemmingh when he was with you; is that correct?
A Correct.

Q What type of equipment did he purchase that was attached to Flemmingh or Silco?
A He bought a martingale and a bridle for Flemmingh. I'd have to look at the sheet. He has a sheet along with the bill that stated what he purchased, but I believe he purchased a set of polos, three schooling pads, a bridle, a martingale, a halter, a grooming halter, maybe a pair of bell boots and maybe a set of turnout boots. Silco did not receive the same. However, when Mr. Buck removed the horses, he removed the same.

Q What did Mr. Buck -- what do you think Mr. Buck removed with the horses?
A He took a show bridle for each of those horses, which Silco had a bridle but it was not a show bridle. It was not a 925-dollar bridle and martingale. It was a 335-dollar bridle that we use for schooling. And when the horses got tried, I supplemented in a bridle that I already had so that we were trying to cut the cost as much as possible.

Q Who told you that Mr. Buck took any tack with him on the day that he took the horses?
A Nobody told me. When I came back and found tack missing, I'm assuming that's where it went because he was the only one unauthorized on the property.

Q So if Mr. Buck never took any equipment whatsoever, you're just assuming that he did?
A Yes. Seeing as he welcomed people onto the property every day that week, where else would I assume that it went?

Q But you have no proof of that?
A I guess I don't.

Q Let's look at the list. Tell me on this list what equipment there was purchased and billed to Mr. --
A The only thing billed to Mr. Buck was a turnout fly sheet, a show bridle, a standing martingale, a schooling girth -- sorry -- a halter, a grooming slip, a set of bell boots, a set of polos, three schooling pads, three buckets, and one set of turnout boots. That's it.

Q And that's --
A Which was stated on the Internet that I charged him $5,000 worth of equipment, which you'll see that the total of that was less than 1,500.

Q Okay. And when you say "right now," that's the numbers that were purchased at that time?
A Yes. And that was all he was billed for. He was never billed for anything in September or October or November. I floated all of the sheets, all of the blankets. I used all of my own personal equipment on those horses. And I had sheets removed when the horses were removed as well.

Q And you have no proof Mr. Buck had anything to do with that; do you?
A Not yet.

Q Now, when you said you fronted your sheets and your things, you didn't buy equipment for those horses; that was your equipment that you were using? .
A Correct.

Q Okay.
A No. If I had had to purchase it, I would have billed him.

Q So why don't you tell me a list of what you think Marc Buck took with him when he collected his horses on January 12th?
A Two show bridles, two martingales, two halters, two grooming halters, two sets of polos, saddle pads, and stuff I don't know. I don't know that I have a correct accurate account of how many of those I had. So that stuff is menial. It's fine. Two turnout sheets. I don't think I had any blankets missing. I haven't been through the stuff.

Q Now, who was the young lady who was working with you that was there on January 12th?
A Olivia.

Q And where is she now?
A In Wellington.

Q And what is her last name?
A Canto.

Q C-A-N-T-O?
A Yep.

Q You don't know who she's working for now?
A No.

Q Do you have her contact information?
A No.

Q And why not?
A Because she's not working for me right now. I have it somewhere, I'm sure.

Q And had you discussed with Olivia Canto what was taken on the day of January 12th since she was there and --
A She was not there when the horses were being removed. She was there when the last horse was being walked out.

Q And who was -
A She said she didn't know.

Q And who was the gentleman that was staying there at the property?
A I don't know. Somebody that doesn't work for me.

Q The only person that worked for you at that time was Olivia Canto?
A No. I had another guy, Moya, but he was with Olivia. And she instructed Mr. Buck that he was not allowed to remove the horses because he hadn't paid his bill.

Q How about Andrew -- what is Andrew's last name? .
A Vazir, V-A-Z-I-R. He didn't even know the horses we're gone until the following day.

Q What is your relationship with Andrew?
A He's a friend.

Q And does he still ride horses for you?
A Not right now.

Q He used to ride Flemmingh and Silco, is that what I understand?
A Yes. On occasion.

Q When is the last time you talked to Andrew?
A I talk to Andrew pretty much daily.

Q Is he the trainer for Shoshana?
A No.

Q Who is Shoshana's trainer?
A I don't think she has one. Andrew sets jumps for her at the ring.

Q So he's kind of an assistant to Shoshana Gordon?
A No. We just help each other out.

Q Have you had any discussion with Andrew about this lawsuit?
A Yes.

Q And what type of discussions have you had with him?
A Just brief overview.

Q Have you had any discussions in the last week with Andrew about the horses?
A No.

Q Have you talked to him in the last week?
A Yes. I talked to him on Saturday.

Q And you consider Andrew a friend, is that correct?
A Yes.

Q Did Andrew have any discussions with you about anyone he's talked to in the last week about his feelings about these horses and about his relationship with you?
A No.

Q Okay. I'm going to try to use the e-mails. I think that would be easier. Did you have any discussion with Mr. Buck in the beginning of September of 2006 that Flemmingh had received an adjustment and that people were coming one more time to visit him before being vetted?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Were these the same people or were these new people that were coming?
A These were different people

Q And who were they?
A I'd have to go back and look. We had -- when I say that, we had a lot of people in and out of the barn looking at horses and especially that one, because when you walk in the barn that was the one that everybody loved.

Q Well, is it fair to say that when you're telling Mr. Buck that people were coming to see him one more time before vetting that that's not really a sure deal, that is really just a potential?
A I told Mr. Buck until the money was in the bank to never count his chickens before they hatch. I'm very specific about that. The minute you get excited, the money doesn't arrive. It's a sales business. It's like buying cars. People come -- you know, you go into a car lot and you think you have a car sold. I love it. I love it. I'll be back this afternoon. And then they never come back. It happens with horses, too, but they leave you with some false hope.

Q Well, let's look at -- there's two e-mails here. There's an e-mail from Mr. Buck on September 8th where he's asking about the adjustment and whether or not the horse is sold and then there's a response from you underneath that talks about your thoughts on how the sale is going. If you could, just take a look at that, and I'll ask you come questions about that e-mail.
A Regarding him, "I'm assuming that he is sold ???"

Q Hold on. I haven't asked you a question.
A You asked me a question before you stopped.

Q Go ahead and read it. I'm not asking any questions. Just read it. The question I have for you is: You made a statement to him in the e-mail that you think Flemmingh is basically sold?
A Basically.

Q What was the information you were trying to convey to Mr. Buck when you used those words?
A That we are -- we are on go. That we are assuming that the horse is going to get vetted and that we should have no problems and that we should proceed. No vetting followed.

Q At the time that you told him this, was -- did you feel that Flemmingh was going to pass the vet at this time?
A Absolutely.

Q And at the time, during this string of e-mails, there's also a discussion where you talk about buying yet another horse from Mr. Newman's facility; if Flemmingh is sold, taking that money and purchasing something else?
A Yes. I don't recall what horse that was, though.

Q MS. NAVIN: Well, why don't we make this exhibit 10C and this might answer the question.
A What am I supposed to be getting from this?

Q I'm asking you if that tells you the 4-year-old you were talking about --
A I've looked at so many horses and they get sold so fast. I don't recall which one this is, but I'm sure it was a nice one.

Q Okay. And it was from Michael Newman's, correct? You're telling him --
A Chances are very likely, yes. There were several horses that I liked from Michael and, right this second, none that I want to pursue. But he has sent me multiple tapes of horses that I like.

Q We know that you noted it was a 4-year-old bay mare that has Cor de la Bryer, C-O-R D-E L-A B-R-Y-E-R, Alme, A-L-M-E, and Accord II?
A Yeah. And I don't remember him having a 4-year-old bay mare. It may not have been from Michael. It may have been from the guy in Europe.

Q When you say "guy in Europe," did you have a connection in Europe at that time?
A Yes. I've always had connections in Europe. But it may have been from one that Michael had picked out in Europe that wasn't -- you know, maybe I didn't even have photos or anything of it yet. I don't recall.

Q Okay.
A Michael called me at one point on one of his trips from over there and said that he found two that he felt sure I would love. Maybe that's what it's in regards to. And maybe he never imported it.

Q You talked about -- on September 11th, you started talking about you sent him a video of a 4-year-old chestnut gelding on September 11th, and I think it was a large pony. Do you recall having that discussion in e-mails with Mr. Buck?
A Sure.

Q And were you more in line with wanting to buy -- we'll mark it No. 11 -- the large pony versus the mare?
A Obviously. I don't think it was a large pony, though. Does it say a pony?

Q On the last e-mail, doesn't it say "video of large pony attached"?
A Yeah. But there was also a 4-year-old chestnut gelding, chestnut horse. Attached video of chestnut horse, the e-mail right above it. But, yes, there was a chestnut pony and a chestnut horse that I liked very much, both of them.

Q Were they both also of Mr. Newman's?
A Yes. I don't think the chestnut pony was at that time. I think that was one that Andrew Vasir had showed me maybe, but we decided it wasn't going to measure properly.

Q Did you tell Mr. Buck on September 12th, in an e-mail, that if you did not secure the purchase of these horses that someone else would get them?
A Yes. That's the way it works. They're for sale.

Q Okay.
A And that's what happened.

Q Did you tell Mr. Buck that you had a buyer for a horse; that you did not have the -- you found one for the people but you couldn't front the money for it?
A Yes.

Q And that he could pay 85 and you would sell it for 200,000?
A If that's what the e-mails says, I feel sure that's what I said. Yes. There was a customer looking for an older adult hunter for lots of money.

Q All right. How was it that you already had a buyer for this horse? Was this a speculation or was this --
A It's always speculation.

Q Okay. So it wasn't so much that you had a confirmed buyer and you just needed the money. This was more of a "if we buy this horse and if these people come, then I likely can sell it for this"?
A Salesmanship is what it is.

Q Okay.
A It's a sales business.

Q You had told him that you had tried the horse for sale but didn't have the budget to buy it?
A Correct.

Q Was that a horse that was local?
A No.

Q Okay. What horse were you referring to?
A I don't know. I'd have to look at the e-mails. I looked at -- I've looked at 600 horses in the last six months.

Q Did Mr. Buck ever bring a potential investor that spoke with you?
A Yes.

Q Do you remember what his name was?
A David something.

Q Do you believe that prior to September 19th that you had told Mr. Buck that horses don't generally get sold within 60 days?
A Excuse me?

Q I said: Did you ever discuss with Mr. Buck prior to September 19th that horses do not generally get sold within 60 days?
A Absolutely. Always. I always tell people that the average time frame for the horses to get sold is three to four months. And that's only an average. The fastest I've ever sold one is two days. The longest it took me to sell one, that I really wanted to sell, was six months, with a concentrated effort. So three to four months is very average. That's why the spreadsheet that was provided to Mr. Buck, prior to even meeting me or setting foot on the farm and seeing a horse, outlined the horses for six months of expenses because that is what you should expect.

Q Do you remember sending him this e-mail on July 31st -- and let me actually put the front with it to make sure it goes together on July 30th. -- that if the horse sold in 30 days you would expect he would want to reinvest?
A Absolutely. The whole idea was, no matter what, he was supposed to reinvest as long as he made money. This was supposed to be a long-term business relationship. This was not -- you know, again, I've read what he printed online. He stated that this was a 30-day investment. If you could make 60-, 70-, $85,000 in 30 days on an investment, I wouldn't need an investor. That's just ludicrous to think you're going to do that over and over and over again. This was supposed to be a long-term building relationship. There's nothing short-term about it. We were hoping to get one horse sold in a short amount of time, but this was not a short-term investment in no way, shape, or form. I would have never gotten involved. I wanted something lasting and building. I was very clear on that.

Q Well, you had told him that Silco could be done within a short period of time; isn't that correct?
A Yes.

Q And what period of time did you tell him Silco could be done in?
A We were hoping the same thing. We had customers coming.

Q But did you ever make any guaranty or lead him to believe that the horse would be sold within 30 days?
A It is a sales business. There are never guarantees. He got the speech about horses getting hurt, horses dying. I told him of my firsthand experiences with that. And I told him, If you own horses long enough, sooner or later somebody is going to get hurt, but if you can be patient, typically they are okay. And that could probably almost be verbatim what I said.

Q Did you receive an e-mail from Mr. Buck telling you that he really couldn't buy another horse but he would probably go in with it if the horse could be sold within a week or two max?
A Yes.

Q So you understood that he was buying into Silco with the understanding that that horse would be sold within a week or two?
A A We bought the horse -- we had a discussion that is not outlined on that e-mail, when he came to see Silco. Knowing that we had customers coming, yes, we bought the horse together. And I said, I don't really have the cash flow to do this either. I need -- you know, I need it to get sold just as much as he does, because, hello, I didn't make money. That's my cash flow as well. So we were hoping to get the horse sold quickly.

Q And thank you for that answer. My question was: Prior to him buying the horse, when you were discussing back and forth whether or not he could invest in something else, he told you, prior to investing, that the most he could front would be $40,000 so long as he had a return within a week or two weeks max?
A When he came and before he paid for the horse, he was very clear that there are no guarantees. There was no collateral being held. There are no guarantees with an investment.

QI understand. But here's an e-mail Mr. Buck sent you on August 7th. Isn't it fair to say Mr. Buck is telling you in that e-mail he can only invest in Silco if the money is going to come in within one or two weeks, that's the only amount of time he could be without that money?
A Or Flemmingh getting sold. And we really thought Flemmingh was getting sold. If Flemmingh was getting sold, then he could carry Silco longer and it would be fine. And we really thought Flemmingh was getting sold.

Q But it's fair to say you understood he was investing in this next portion because it needed to be something quick to get back to him?
A Did I understand that the man couldn't pay his bills if he bought that horse? Absolutely not. I would -- I would never -- why would anybody invest every penny they had down to the last penny they had. Never. I would never do that. That's crazy.

Q Okay. But my question to you was: In this e-mail, he's telling you he can only float this money for one to two weeks. You understood that?
A Yes. And he also understood, face-to-face conversation, that there were no guarantees, that it is a sales business. I assumed that at 40-some years of age, he understands a sales business, that I can't twist people's arm.

Q Now, you had priced Flemmingh back in September at 150,000?
A Correct.

Q Okay. What made Flemmingh worth 75, when you-all bought him, versus the 150? Now that you wanted to sell him for?
A The same thing that makes a house in Jacksonville, North Carolina that's a $100,000 worth 350 down here: Location, presentation, putting them in the right place at the right time. And he was talented. He's beautiful. He's easy. He has everything going for him that any kid or adult lady would want to buy. He was very marketable. Most horses that you could go look at for 150 make him look way overqualified for the job, which is why I felt like he would get sold quickly.

Q What else about him? When you're looking at it as a professional, you're looking at this horse, you're evaluating him, you're deciding what price do I want to put on this horse, what criteria did you use to pick the horse?
A For me, they all have to meet certain criteria. They have to be beautiful. And he's got kind of an unorthodox look about him that really works for him. He grabs people's attention. He has a tremendous personality. His rideability. He never pulse on the reigns. He has a very nice mouth. He moves off your leg. The lead change is easy. He's quiet. When you pull on the reigns, he stops. When you kick him, he goes. He just goes out there and is very businesslike about his job. He likes it. Never puts his ears back. He's just interested. He's a beautiful mover. He's a beautiful jumper. All of that together is what makes him valuable. And is he worth more than 150? Yeah. I mean, there was a customer that would have tried him for more money. You know, if somebody came in the barn and said they had more money to spend, then that's what he got tried for. Was he worth 150? I think absolutely all day long. I know horses that are getting sold for 150 and, in most respects, he's either nicer, easier, more beautiful, a lot of those things. Again, I think he's overqualified to be priced that way.

Q But you agree that he did not have a, what I call, recordable show history?
A Oh, no. Absolutely not. No. And I didn't sell him that way.

Q And isn't it fair to say that people that are looking for show horses are going to gravitate towards those that have a show history, that have some experience in the show ring?
A I disagree. I think in that price range, that's what pregreen horses are getting sold for. So one that can go and walk right into either the three-three pregreens or step right on up to the junior hunters, I don't know, I think -- a lot of times people will pay more because it's a fresh face. Unless they're horse of the year or really -- you know, really truly have a year of campaigning and have a name for themselves, people are, you know -- those horses are 250 and on up. I don't think people are expecting to buy horses for $150,000 that have a tremendous show record. That, I disagree. Silco, different scenario.

Q You can tell me about Silco and your criteria, since we're here.
A Silco, different scenario. Silco -- I really put the most value in Silco based on his rideability. He rides -- I mean, I have ridden Grand Prix horses. I have ridden some of the nicest horses in the country. That horse is probably one of the nicest well-broke horses on the flat that I have ever ridden, not to mention it is a phenomenal mover. He's not the best jumper, which is why I felt like he was a good equitation horse. He likes for you to ride him and have some contact. But the picture going around for an equitation horse -- he's not heavy. He's not course. He jumps good enough. But he is a beautiful mover on the flat. So it really puts the extra polish on the overall picture. Where you get some of the 17 two-hand clunkers, he rises above those type of horses.

Q You agree he does not have good jumping form?
A No. Yeah, I would personally never make him a hunter.

Q And you feel, even with his jumping style, that he's capable of jumping three-six or higher?
A Not higher. I think three-six is -- I think he's a phenomenal equitation horse and that's it.

Q And when you say "equitation," you're saying three-six. Obviously we know that some of the equitation classes are over three-six.
A Only the USET. And he's not a USET horse. I would not tell people to go jump him four-foot-three. But most equitation horses, they're clarified. Most of those horses are not USET horses. So, no, I think he's a legitimate equitation horse.

Q When you say that, you're saying at the three-six level?
A Yes. Well, I thought that when we bought him. After jumping him three or four days in a row at three-foot-six, his leg proved to be otherwise later in the game.

Q October 1st of 2006, you had sent an e-mail to Mr. Buck saying that the customer that is vetting Flemmingh stopped by to feed him some carrots before they headed out of town and you told him that an appointment had already been made for the first week in November. Do you recall having any discussion with him about that?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Who had scheduled a vetting for him?
A It was actually not a customer of mine. It was through an agent. And the agent is the one who had stopped by, Jennifer Bieling. She was the one, pretty much, that brought most of the customers in. She just kept -- we were all in the same boat: Waiting on the foot, waiting on the foot. Later we thought it was his back or then we thought it was this.

Q How many times had Jennifer come over to see the horse?
A Daily, weekly, often. Often.

Q Okay.
A Maybe not daily, but several times a week.

Q Had you ever -- had you ever sold a horse with Jennifer being involved at any time?
A No.

Q Okay. Was -- so she wasn't the one that got Ms. Kassin to you?
A I have since then. But at the time, no, I had not. Maybe I misunderstood.

Q That's okay. Have you ever, as you sit here today, sold a horse either through Ms. Bieling or to Ms. Bieling?
A Yes. Through Ms. Bieling.

Q I know one of those would be Bernesto, correct?
A Yes.

Q Any other horse?
A No.

Q Did you have to pay Ms. Bieling a commission?
A Yes. And she has not been paid yet.

Q And I understand that Rob Colluccio somehow is involved?
A Yes. He was actually the one trying to gyp Jennifer out of her commission. But, yes, multiple commissions.

Q And you weren't handling that part; that was among them?
A No. I was supposed to pay Rob. Rob was supposed to pay Jennifer and --

Q Ms. Kassin?
A Yes.

Q And I understand from Ms. Kassin that that horse was sold for 46,000?
A $500.

Q Now, when did you first call a vet to look at Flemmingh's foot? I know about the blacksmith stuff, but I'm talking about a vet.
A The first day that he actually physically limped during a trial. And we can probably refer to the vet record from Dr. Griffith, whatever day he injected his feet and ankles.

Q Okay.
A That day the lady -- I told you I road the horse for 10 or 15 minutes in the morning. He was fine. We took him back out in the afternoon and it was bad, like --

Q Okay.
A And so I called Dr. Griffith. He said, "Oh, it's probably going to be tomorrow." I said, "Oh, gosh. These people are in town today and tomorrow. They'd like to come back, if it's nothing major. If we need to pull his shoe off, make an adjustment. You know, he acts like a horse that has an abscess. He went from being sound to very lame quickly." And when he came out to evaluate, we opted to inject his front feet and front ankles, which made absolutely no remarkable impression on the horse whatsoever. We were no further along.

Q Okay. Then let's --
A But he came back out -- he came out that night.

Q Let's try to extrapolate that a little bit. At the time that Dr. Griffith came, he had already had the injury to the foot with the toe clip and you had already tried for about two weeks to do the soaking and whatnot?
A Yes. We were marginally unsound. The average person probably wouldn't have even seen it.

QOkay.
A It wasn't until that afternoon where we had ridden him twice in one day. And, again, I did not ride him hard in the morning. I didn't jump very big. I maybe cantered three jumps just to make sure he was going to be straight to the jumps. You had to leg him a lot, because he's quiet, so that he would stay straight. And when -- I put the girl right on him. I didn't get on him because he was going to be too quiet if I did. She walked from the barn to the ring, picked up a trot, literally maybe trotted two circles. I don't even know that we had all made it out to the ring before she was pulling up and getting off because he was so lame.

Q And that was the one that came to you through Jennifer Bieling?
A Yes. We were embarrassed. We wouldn't have shown the horse if we thought he was going to be lame, obviously. So we called the vet out immediately. I got Dr. Griffith there probably about seven o'clock that night.

Q Okay. So on 8/23 he came out and did what on that day?
A He came out and did a lameness exam. It says he did Traumeel and echinacea injection. I have no idea what that would be for.

Q And then --
A And then the following morning, he came and injected his front feet and front ankles.

Q And did you have any discussion with Dr. Griffith at that time as to taking radiographs of the feet before doing any type of injections?
A It was not recommended to me.

Q So he felt that, based on the way the horse looked, that they would go ahead and do the coffin and fetlock joint injections?
A And truthfully, when we flexed the horse, he didn't flex phenomenal, but he was not as lame when Dr. Griffith was there as he was when the lady was on him.

Q And he pulled the shoe?
A Yes.

Q Is that the left or right front that he pulled, that he had the injury to?
A Right front.

Q Okay. The right front. And what did he -- and I see that it says "bandage both legs." What -- how long was he --
A Yes. I've never been charged $60 to bandage legs after being injected. I was infuriated. But, anyway, that's neither here nor there.

Q Probably not. Now, with respect to this particular treatment, did he get any better or worse after this treatment?
A Absolutely no change whatsoever. I felt like we should have maybe blocked his foot or something. I will give -- okay. Again, I saw the horse with the lady on him when he was very lame. When Dr. Griffith came, the horse looked very different. He was not nearly as bad. He was kind of back to how he had been, slightly unsound right front, nothing horrible. With the lady on him, he looked like a horse with an abscess where they can't walk on their foot. But he didn't get that. And the horse never really tested positive to hoof testers, which goes against his foot hurting.

Q Okay.
A However, the course of events -- this is how --

Q I want to stay here. I don't want to go any further than --
A Yeah. Well, this is how we led up to the other vet work, so on and so forth.

Q We're going to get there. Let's stay chronological with me. So no --
A No change whatsoever.

Q Okay.
A It was a totally useless procedure.

Q After this particular --
A To be truthful.

Q That's fine. After this particular course of treatment on August 24th -- I mean, at least now we can extrapolate to know that, if on August 23rd Dr. Griffith was there, we can extrapolate back two or three weeks because we now know that that shoe had to come off somewhere in that time frame.
A Right.

Q I'm just trying to get an understanding without having to dig through all your records. Now, did Dr. Griffith need him to be off of work after this particular course of treatment?
A Yes. A couple days. And we were under the assumption -- these people really loved the horse. They were happy to fly back and ride the horse again. We really thought the horse was going to get sold despite the fact that it needed its front feet and ankles injected. They didn't care about that. They just wanted the horse fixed. They rode four or five other horses in town and found absolutely nothing they liked. We really thought that that was going to take care of the problem and that we could proceed and the horse would go ahead and get sold.

Q Okay. Now, just looking at the invoices, I had shown two bills from Jack Miller?
A Yes.

Q One was from September 19th. The other was from October 17th.
A Uh-huh.

Q Were there any other shoeing bills prior to that, that were charged to Mr. Buck for August?
A I have a bill from Jeff Channell, I'm sure. Jeff and I had a little bit of a tiff and I think his bill -- he might have to write me out a new bill. He walked out because of a disagreement with a vet. I didn't disagree with Jeff, actually. I disagreed with the vet as well. But he had his feelings hurt and so we had a little bit of a tiff. But, yes, I think Flemmingh's shoeing was on another bill just for a half shoeing.

Q Now, Silco on 9/19, and Flemmingh, the charges were 285 per horse for those?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And 318 for the other date?
A Yes.

Q And those bills have been paid to -- they have already been -- money has been paid to Mr. Miller?
A Yes.

Q Do you owe any money to Jeff Channell as it relates to Flemmingh or Silco?
A Not as it relates to Flemmingh or Silco. Jeff helped me out a year ago and I do have a running bill with him that I chip away at as we're doing some other things, but nothing as it relates to Flemmingh or Silco.

Q Is he still shoeing horses for you?
A Yes.

Q When is the last time that he shod horses for you?
A December 31st.

Q Been a long time. He hasn't been back since December 31st?
A No. He was in Ocala and couldn't make it down to just do my two horses. So I had James Gilchrist do them. Just so that I always have somebody around.

Q Okay.
A James didn't do the horses in December because he didn't want to travel from farm to farm with the fires going around. And Jeff hadn't been anywhere. He drove directly to my farm, so I felt like it was safe.

Q Why was Flemmingh adjusted on August 14th? Why was there an acupuncture and adjustment done that day by Dr. Griffith?
A Dr. Griffith felt like it was a useful procedure to help the horse with his -- just some chiropractic issues. Nothing that was making him unsound or anything, but to help with the jumping and the work. And if we were going to go get prepurchased, we do some of those things sometimes. Truthfully, my own opinion, I don't think that adjustment that he does does a damn thing, and that's why I quit using it.

Q The insurance examination, last time we talked about it, I think I misquoted. I said it was a hundred. It was really $50.
A Yes.

Q And we were talking about the thoroughness of that insurance examination. You would agree with me that that examination did not include radiographs or looking internally at the horse?
A Does not include radiographs, but it does include soundness.

Q Okay. Did you honestly believe that that insurance examination was a thorough exam?
A Given already speaking to Dr. Barber about the x-rays, and given that Dr. Griffith, I feel, is competent of telling me whether the horse is sound and can see and breath and listen to his heart and all, yes.

Q He didn't do flexions, correct?
A Not to my knowledge. But we did jog the horse and I think probably lunge it in a circle. So he did see it go both directions. I think that's required.

Q So the first lameness exam was really on August 23rd?
A Yeah. The insurance exam billed on the 15th. I believe the insurance exam was done prior to that, because the insurance company had to have the form before that date. They wouldn't have insured the horse for two weeks without having that insurance exam. I'm sure you can ask Dr. Griffith. His billing system can be a little slow sometimes.

Q Now, from August 15th through August 23rd -- obviously, Flemmingh wasn't lame on August 15th; is that correct?
A Correct. And, again, I'm pretty sure the insurance exam was done way prior to that. It's not billed that way, but I can probably check with the insurance company to find out when they received it.

Q Okay. Is it fair to say that whenever that insurance exam was done that the shoe incident had not happened yet because he was sound?
A No. The shoe -- under tack is when he showed up to be lame. In hand, he didn't -- that's why we never attributed it to much more than he had pulled the shoe off and stood on the toe clip. It wasn't until you would go in a tight circle going one direction that it really became obvious. When I say he was moderately unsound, I mean, out of a 25-minute riding session, he might take ten steps every so often that were slightly questionable, not even lame. Like I said, the average person for sure wouldn't notice. There's probably a lot of people at the horse show that wouldn't notice it. You felt it more than you saw it. Again, I put people on to ride him. Let me see what I'm feeling here kind of thing. And it didn't look like it felt all the time. So when I say it was moderate, I mean, it was moderate.

Q When did Dr. Scott come in proximity to Dr. Griffith's care?
A You have to look at his bill.

Q I don't have it here.
A I think shortly after we realized that the foot and ankle injection didn't do anything Jennifer Bieling recommended Dr. Scott to me. Matter of fact, I think she made the call and she said maybe -- maybe there's a little more to it up high; maybe it really has nothing to do with that since we addressed this and it's not the issue. Let's just get somebody that hasn't seen the horse to come and look. So he came. The horse, like I said, is a little unorthodox in his body type. It works for him. But it definitely steers you in that direction.

Q Okay. Well, we know that Dr. Griffith was there on August 24th.
A Correct.

Q I show that your first time that you made your way -- or that somebody at Palm Beach Equine made their way to your place was on September 12th?
A Yes. And it was in between the two that Dr. Scott came.

Q So it's fair enough to say it was sometime in that time frame?
A Absolutely.

Q Did Dr. Scott -- what did he actually find? What was his thought process on Flemmingh?
A He didn't find much chiropracticly [sic]. I think he did do an adjustment. I think they always want to do an adjustment. And it does -- it does tweak their performance. It does make little hints of improvement. Do I think it's a cure? No. But he assessed the horse as just being weak behind, having weak stifles, like any horse that has just shipped in from Europe when they fly and all and they're young and a little lazy, like he is. He felt like it was only a stifle issue. He didn't see as much up front as we were feeling. So he put us on a ten-day course of riding twice a day for at least 20 minutes, trotting only. And I think -- and we gave him estrone, which I absolutely hate. I think it makes them a little wild. .

Q Did he inject his stifles?
A No. We did not opt for that. I felt like we had already done an aggressive injection route before. I wanted some kind of proof that this horse needed some stifle work before we were going to go that route again.

Q Okay. Now, the first note that I have from Palm Beach Equine is September 12th and it says that there's been history of unknown lameness for a four-week duration and -- let me show you that. My question really to you is: In that ime frame -- and I think you may have just answered that -- were you still riding the horse during that four weeks?
A Yes. Dr. Scott had -- nobody had -- other than after his injections, nobody had ever wanted us to stop work. Because the horse was hardly lame. He was slightly lame. And they felt like he either needed to get better or get worse to even assess what the lameness was. She actually came out that day. He had a swollen left -- I think left hind leg. It looked like a bucked shin, just kind of an unknown thing. Customers that had come in the barn were just in the barn looking and just -- and, you know, skin thing is what we're assuming it was. We put him on some skin medication and it went right away. But that's actually how she got there to begin with.

Q Okay. So you really weren't calling her out at that point to actually investigate any lameness with Flemmingh; it was mostly just history you were giving her?
A Yes.

Q Now, on September 9th, I show that there was an e-mail to Mr. Buck that indicated that the horses were -- it says, "Horses were awesome. Flemmingh felt good before the chiropractor and now feels amazing." Do you remember having that discussion with him through an e-mail?
A Yes. Again, we continued working the horse and he just continued to make improvements. And people continued -- like when people would come, we would say, We can't really jump him for you yet. He's getting over having a shoe off or he had an abscess. So he's just getting back to work. So it could kind of explain the reason he looks a little weak behind. And we would trot for them and they would all want to come back and see the horse again. I mean, we kept having maybe false hope that it was going to go ahead and be okay, because everybody loved the horse. And he -- other than the one day that the lady was there that rode him, he really was never lame. He was just marginally questionable. Like you could -- if you said, oh, that horse pulled a shoe off and stood on its toe clip, you would go, yeah, I could see that, okay. And it was never worse than that.

Q Did you remember telling Mr. Buck on September 9th that people were coming on September 14th to try Flemmingh?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Was Flemmingh sound or unsound on September 14th?
A He was getting -- he was better and better by the day. I mean we had jumped some small cross-rails and were holding our own. Again, he would take some few questionable steps. But the vets never said stop. Again, he has to get worse before we can even diagnosis him, so you need to keep on. He may just work himself out of this. So we -- you know, slowly we continued to progress. And pretty much everybody that was coming to try the horses were well aware of what we had -- where we were with his progress and about the foot, and so on and so forth. All we could explain was the foot, because, up to that point, that's all we had to go on.

Q Now, on September 19th, there's another Palm Beach Equine invoice and we're going to mark that as Plaintiff's No. 18. And it says, "History: Right front, left rear lameness. Gelding imported six weeks ago. He stepped toe clip three days after import and with notations of inconsistent lameness since Dr. Griffith treated coffin and fetlocks about four weeks ago. Dr. Scott treatment stifles with estrogen therapy." Now --
A That was not an injection into his stifles.

Q I understand that.
A Okay.

Q My question, though, is: Does that give us a better understanding of when the shoe came off?
A I think that's a little bit of an exaggeration, three days. I feel sure -- I said we had customers coming through the barn for a hundred. And promptly upon saying, no, they couldn't try the horse for a hundred, three days later, it pulled the shoe off and stepped on the toe clip. That is a saying that I have used on multiple occasions regarding that horse, because it's been kind of depressing.

Q Well, let's look at the dates.
A Yeah. Three days after import, I think that's a gross exaggeration of when the horse pulled the shoe off. I think we have definitely pushed the time frame back from there. But, yes, approximately four weeks prior Dr. Griffith had injected his front feet and front ankles, and approximately a week or two before that is when he pulled the shoe off and stood on the toe clip.

Q So that would have been somewhere around August 10th or 14th?
A I would narrow it down to that very confidently.

Q Now, based on the visit on 9/19 of '06 with -- I believe it's Dr. Snyder?
A Everything was with Dr. Snyder.

Q What was her thought process on that day other than what she wrote on her bill? I'm just asking what you specifically recall on that day.
A We started out -- I'll just give you my perception of things. When she came out to view the horse, we went through a basic lameness examination as far as, you know, trotting in circles, trotting in straight lines, doing flexions, so on and so forth. I didn't buy into the whole stifle thing with Dr. Scott. Not that it wasn't a useful tool, but it wasn't making the horse sound. And the right front had been an obvious thing. And Dr. Scott didn't get to see him with the lady on him right front. I preached right front the whole time. I believe this might be the first day that we changed the saddle --

Q Okay.
A -- and saw a difference. I literally could take my saddle off, put Shoshana's brand new saddle on, get right back on the horse, and the horse would be completely different. Okay? So then we started doing -- then we started looking in different areas. You have to draw your attention to his back at that point. And the left hind, that's where Dr. Scott felt the left stifle was significantly weaker than the right. So left hind displaced to right front for sure could be his back being bothered. So then we pursued treatment on his back. She did come back and x-ray his back.

Q Hold on. Wait. Let's stick with 9/19. My only question to you on 9/19 was if Dr. Snyder injected him on 9/19.
A I think she did it the next day. I don't think she could have injected him, because we did -- we blocked his right front foot.

Q Let me make sure we do this right. I show here on 9/19 -- on 9/19, also, I show that some radiographs were also --
A For his back.

Q -- done on his back, is that correct?
A Yeah. I didn't get to finish. She came back in the afternoon, radiographed his back --

Q Okay.
A -- and then she did come back. And she might have even mesotherapied him. We started out -- I didn't get to tell you. We blocked his right front leg. We started with his foot, nerve block his right front leg. It did not block out, which you would think if it was just his foot, it would block out. Then we did his pastern. We did his ankle. We did his suspensory. We did all the way up. So that's why, when we changed the saddle, we got the change. She came back, x-rayed his back. And then upon viewing the x-rays, his vertebrae were very close together. I don't know that she saw any arthritic changes, but the vertebrae were close enough together that she felt like injecting him may help us, you know, tremendously.

Q And that she did on the 20th, I understand?
A Yes.

Q Okay. Now, during this time -- what I'm going to do is I'm going to mark Plaintiff's Exhibit 18, which will be the 9/19/06 visit starting at 9:45, and then the 9/19/06 visit that took place at three o'clock. And then there's a 9/19 with no time on it.
A Okay.

Q And then the 9/20 starting at eleven o'clock, those two -- actually, I'm sorry -- one. So we're going to mark that as Exhibit 18 so we can refer to it later.
A Okay.

Q Now, when she did all of this on the 19th and 20th, what did she want you to do with respect to his process of working?
A One to two days of just standing in the stall, no turnout or anything because -- for the sake of cleanliness. And then after that, I think we did five more days of hand walking/turnout, maybe tack walking. I don't think we were really riding him. And then evaluation in seven days. I think I probably was tack walking him because we didn't want to just give him just total time off. We might have given him total time off. Truthfully, I don't remember. I'd have to look at her notes. But I know we reevaluated in seven days.

Q Okay. Now, up to this period of time of September 20th of 2006, now that you've gone through this array of testing and three different veterinarians -- any time up to 9/20, had you picked up the phone and called Mr. Newman and told him that there was some concerns with Flemmingh?
A Yes. I think I called him about his back and said that we had -- we had x-rayed his back and his vertebra were fairly close together and that that might be -- he knew I was still having some issues with the shoe. And I said, I don't think -- we're now not thinking it's his shoe. You know, when I changed the saddle -- actually, I do know, because I called and asked him what kind of saddle he tried the horse in. Because we were even trying to contemplate putting a dressage saddle on him to see -- okay. If the horse was bought out of a dressage barn originally, maybe in Europe they didn't even know that the horse had a little bit of a back issue because they would have never ridden him in a saddle like this. I don't remember what his response was. I think he thought the whole thing was a little hokey.

Q Now, when you were communicating with him, were you communicating with him just in happenstance to telling him what was going on or were you thinking -- or did you convey to him at this time that perhaps there might be something that was not disclosed, that it may be enough that this horse needs to go back to him?
A That was definitely insinuated. And Jennifer Bieling even made a phone call for me on my behalf regarding the two horses. I don't remember at what point, but it was insinuated, because Michael got a little frustrated with me. And, truthfully, the horse was fine when it got here off the plane. I can't lie about that. It would make everybody's life easier if the horse was unsound when it got here off the plane because then he would just take it back. But it wasn't. The horse was fine.

Q Well, you -- did you ever think to -- or did it ever cross your mind that perhaps these horses could have been on any form of medication that you may not have been told about that would have, within a month's time, worn off and now you're seeing issues that were not prevalent before?
A That's possible. And there's a lot of medication that they can give in Europe that we can't even test for. Unfortunately, that's part of the business.

Q And all you can do is trust the person who is selling the horse to you to be honest and truthful?
A Correct.

Q When Ms. Bieling made the phone call on your behalf to Mr. Newman, was she calling to try to work on getting him to take the horses back?
A I think so.

Q Okay. And did she discuss with you what the context of that conversation was?
A She didn't discuss it with me quite as much as Michael did. Like I said, Michael was frustrated. I believe that she had called, and I think there might be -- I don't know if there's some history there. But, like I said, it was insinuated. When I've spoken to Michael, I have always felt like the best approach is to ask him for his help, not push him to feel he needs to help. And I've had pretty good response that way. And I felt like when -- any time I spoke with him about any of the horses, he was very receptive to being helpful. So I tried to always make sure I kept him in the loop. At this point, if it was something as simple as -- you know, back things, while they can be kind of chronic, they're usually manageable. This is not something to send the horse back over. Okay. Fine. Buy a new saddle. Do things to help this along. But that's not something -- but I made sure he was in the loop in case it progressed to a point where I felt like that was necessary so that he wasn't -- you know, three months later I call and say we've had all these problems with these horses. I kept him in the loop.

Q So you felt that there was the distinct possibility that these horses may need to go back if the information and the research that you were doing was leading to some issue that maybe was not disclosed?
A I believe that I even said to the point that one of the other horses that I was trying to get bought -- I said. "what's holding me up is the fact that this horse has been hurt and running up all these bills and he's not getting sold. I can't go purchase more horses."

Q And what was Michael's response to that?
A Something to the effect of I understand. And, you know -- and he warned me about Palm Beach Equine. He doesn't think so highly of them and felt like that they would do everything they could to run up a bill. Hindsight, there may be a few things I might do differently with the thing. But, honestly, I wholeheartedly believed it was his right front foot right up until I watched her block his right front foot and he wasn't sound. Can they miss the block? Yeah. Do they always block out? No. There's some discrepancies. And being a vet is hard. And I felt like she did everything she could to do a good job for us. And with the insurance, they make you go through certain steps to get from A to B, and sometimes it's not in a straight line. And so I don't -- I don't feel like Palm Beach Equine just ran up a bill. I really feel like she was doing everything she could to make the horse sound, to investigate it thoroughly. She came and ultrasounded the horse free of cost, all four legs, just for her own piece of mind, even though the bone scan, soft tissue bone scan did not show anything. She said, "Let's just be sure."

Q She x-rayed him?
A Ultrasounded all four tendons.

Q Okay.
A And didn't charge us for it. Okay. So, again, there's -- you know, you can put a lot of opinions into it. She did want to do his back one other time and I said no. I said, "We've done it twice. It hasn't ever made him a hundred percent." If it made him a hundred percent even for two days, I might have been inclined to do it again. But I said, "We have spent $10,000 on this horse and he's never been a hundred percent."

Q Okay. Well, let's -- I'm sorry. Go ahead.
A Until Jeff shod him. When Jeff shod him, the horse was a hundred percent. So I didn't let her do his back a third time. She knew I was a little frustrated, Kim did. Because I said, "How many times do people do this?" I said, "We just can't afford this. We can't just keep spending money, spending money." I kind of, in an idol threat, said, "Maybe we'll just turn him out for six months and see where we are." And she -- you know, I think that's a drastic measure, or whatever. But I just wanted to make sure that we weren't just running up a bill, you know, just make sure we're all on the same page here.

Q Okay.
A So we were -- like I said, she came and ultrasounded the horse free of charge because she knew there was a frustration level there as well. But she did it for her own piece of mind. So I feel like we were all trying to work together here to make it as good as possible.

Q Now, we were talking about --
A Sorry.

Q That's okay. We were talking about the discussion with Jennifer Bieling and Michael Newman. Did she -- what did she tell you about the conversation?
A I don't remember. Not very much. I think basically that she felt like Silco shouldn't have been bought because he didn't jump quite good enough. And as an equitation horse, it's fine. She loved the horse when he first got there. This was hindsight. This was after the horse had been ultrasounded. So it's easy to say that hindsight. She had given me -- helped me on the ground with him and things like that, so -- and brought many customers there to try the horse.

Q Okay.
A I don't -- she basically said she didn't think Michael was going to do anything.

Q So she was testing the waters with Michael to see about sending the horses back, and by the time she finished her conversation, she felt that that wasn't going to happen?
A Yes. That was my impression, I believe. And, honestly, that part is a little sketchy for me.

Q When you talked to Michael -- I presume you talked to Michael after he had the conversation with Jennifer?
A Yes.

Q What was his attitude after Jennifer attempted to intervene?
A I remember very specifically feeling the need to apologize for Jennifer calling.

Q So Jennifer didn't call at your bequest; it was more of her own initiative?
A We talked about it. I don't know if I specifically asked her to call. I definitely left her with the impression please don't let me stop you from calling. I may have specifically asked her. I don't remember. What I remember best is calling afterwards, calling Michael, and being like, oh, shit. I needed to apologize for her calling. But he was very unhappy. She had -- again, she had made some insinuations to him that he had basically sold us bad horses. And, again, I have to kind of go with my gut here. I don't think -- Flemmingh wasn't hurt when we got him. It sucks. But that horse wasn't hurt till he pulled that shoe off. And had Jeff never shod it and never made it sound, I might feel differently. But knowing that changing that horse's shoeing immediately improved it a hundred percent, I couldn't help but feel any other way. Up until then, I definitely had my doubts and I wasn't buying any more horses there until I got to the bottom of it.

Q Now, let's -- as far as your -- what is your current relationship with Jennifer Bieling?
A I haven't spoken to her in a while, but I don't think we -- as far as I know, we're friends.

Q Okay. And when is the last time you've talked to her?
A When I got home from Europe.

Q So back in January?
A Yeah. Like mid January, late January.

Q Okay. Has she ever been upset or relayed being upset about her lack of commission on Bernesto? I mean, it hasn't affected your relationship?
A No.

Q Now, on September 27th, I show an invoice from Palm Beach Equine that talks about the fact that Dr. Snyder observed the video from Europe. She writes, "Gelding trots one direction only and limited trot, one time canter, and a few small fences at canter in the dressage saddle." Now, is this the video she looked at, at your house?
A Not my house, but yes. That was what Jennifer spoke to Michael about. Because he was -- that's what he was unhappy about, was that she insinuated that he knowingly only showed one direction with the horse, blah, blah, blah.

Q Well, certainly that's a concern, isn't it?
A Yes, it was.

Q Okay. Now, obviously the video that you were given could have shown you just the, what I would call, good portions of the horse, correct?
A Correct. That's what any video does.

Q Obviously, if a horse is lame at the trot and you go to horse show, you're going to pick up a canter and go in the ring?
A Correct.

Q So in this instance, Dr. Snyder was somewhat concerned and noted that she felt that the video was limited in the amount of information it provided you?
A Correct. Jennifer and I had already viewed it up at that point and pointed that out, and she confirmed our previous assumption that that maybe is not a good thing.

Q And, in hindsight, do you feel that -- in fact, that Mr. Newman did not give you as much information as far as the horse's going as he could have?
A Possibly. Possibly. I think I did ask him for more footage of the horse. Because I know a lot of times these things are edited. And I don't remember what the outcome of that was. Obviously, I don't have that and I've never seen that. Maybe that's something he didn't have any longer. I don't know.

Q Okay. And did you then go back and look at the information you viewed on Silco to see whether or not they showed more on Silco?
A What do you mean?

Q On the video.
A Oh. Yeah. Silco, we had ten times more video footage. We had him inside. We had him outside. We had him jumping courses. Totally different deal.

Q I understand. But the point is is that you got to see a tremendous amount with Silco -- .
A And not as much with Flemmingh, absolutely.

Q In hindsight, did you go back and think that perhaps they certainly gave you a ton on Silco, but not enough on Flemmingh?
A Yes. That's why we pursued on with trying to get to the bottom of what the problem was to see what the best way to fix it was.

Q Fair to say that even though you changed the saddle he wasn't a hundred percent?
A Oh, for sure. Oh, yeah. I mean, I bought a $3,000 saddle for the horse and still we're not at a hundred percent.

Q What saddle did you have that you were riding him in versus what you started to ride him in?
A I had a old Beaute (phonetic) that was just kind of warn out. And I bought a new Beaute, because that's what Shoshana had and that was what he was the most comfortable in. We did try four or five other saddles. The only one that he really was truly comfortable in was the Beaute, the new one.

Q Okay. Now, on September 20th, we talked about the injections in the spine. And then I saw here on September 27th that now -- I'm sorry -- that he had had rest for those seven days between 9/20 and 9/27. Just read that and make sure I'm understanding that correctly.
A Yes. I don't think -- I think you're right. I think we were not riding him at this point. Again, I think we were just tack walking just so that he didn't get wild. Turning him out at night and tack walking.

Q Now, do you recall having an exchange of e-mails with Mr. Buck on September 22nd where you advised him that a professional was coming to see the horses and they're looking at Flemmingh for $200,000 and that the best case scenario for Flemmingh is that he gets looked at on Tuesday afternoon from the vet and everything is perfect and we proceed from there? So plan on seven business days for payment. Did you have that discussion? And let me show you what I'm referring to, if you had that discussion.
A Yes.

Q Okay. And tell me what professional was coming to see him for $200,000?
A Jennifer had talked about Bill Cooney coming. He was in town. And Bill Cooney was supposed to come and look at the horse. But the horse wasn't sound, so we ended up not following through.

Q So at this time --
A We put it off, hoping that -- you know, people come back and forth, and that it's better to show them one that's sound rather than have them remember the one that was lame.

Q By the time on this day you were giving Mr. Buck the impression that somebody was coming and if all went well, he would be paid in seven days?
A Yes. We were very confident that the horse would -- if he was okay, that we were okay to get the deal done. But the horse was not okay.

Q In fact, during the time that this e-mail was written, the -- and we're marking this as Plaintiff's Exhibit 20A and 20B. Actually, let me do it different. Let me do Plaintiff's Exhibit 20 and we'll put all of the September 22nd e-mails together. At the time that the September 22nd discussion was had in the e-mails, it's fair to say that he was on bed rest, right, stall rest?
A No. I said I was tack walking. I also said that he was going out at night. And it also says right here that the vet was coming, and if the vet gave us the okay --

Q Let me see if I understand this correctly.
A It's what you read off to me.

Q "The best case scenario for Flemmingh is if he gets looked at on Tuesday afternoon from the vet and everything is perfect and we proceed from there. Plan on seven business days for payment."
A From the vet. Exactly. We didn't get that approval.

Q Hold on. Let me make sure I understand what you're saying here. So you're saying -- your context in this discussion here is -- on this September 22, 10:39 e-mail is, we're on hold, but come this following Tuesday -- this was Friday. So let's see here. Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. So the 27th. So you're saying when she comes back on September 27th, if all goes well, then he's back to work and you can get something done in seven days?
A Yeah. Because, like I said, people were really all over this horse. I mean, we were biting our tongue. And, fortunately, we didn't really find anything wrong. Unfortunately, we didn't really find anything wrong. The fortunate part was if we found -- we didn't really have anything to tell people. But the unfortunate thing is we couldn't really make it right. Like I said, I was very forthright with Marc about what was going on with the horses.

Q Okay. All right. You also indicated in that same group of e-mails that --
A Can I stop you for one second?

Q Of course.
A Also note in that e-mail that that said "best case scenario for Flemmingh." That was our most optimal best case how it was going to happen.

Q But at least on this day you were saying, I have a professional coming to see all the horses in the barn today and he will be looking at Flemmingh for 200,000. So you're saying that when he's going to look at him he's visibly looking at him?
A Yes.

Q He's not going to ride him?
A Yeah. No. He was just going to watch him and look at him in the stall. Everybody was very clear that the horse was recovering. Matter of fact, we would tape his foot up and pack his foot so that people knew there was something wrong with his foot.

Q Okay. But at this point, it wasn't really his foot; it was his back?
A We didn't know. We didn't know.

Q Now, what -- you also have here that "in the first week in November we have three vet appointments scheduled". And you're talking about Silco. Who was scheduled to vet Silco in November?
A I was told that the horses would all be getting vetted in November.

Q You were told that by whom?
A Jennifer.

Q So Jennifer was the individual who you were relying on?
A Yes.

Q Did you put Flemmingh back into work after the September 27th visit?
A Yes.

Q And what type of work did he go back to?
A Moderate. Trotting, getting strong, probably no jumping.

Q Now, I understand that he went to the clinic on September 2nd for the nuclear scintigraphy?
A Yes.

Q And he had a mild reaction and colic from that scintigraphy?
A Yes.

Q And what -- after the scintigraphy had been done, what information was afforded to you as a result of the scintigraphy? What did you learn from the scintigraphy?
A Not a whole lot.

Q What did they discuss with you at that point?
A They questioned a few places in his neck that could be areas of concern. There was one little place on his back that maybe was an area of concern. But basically it was nonconclusive. It was inconclusive. They did go on and x-ray his neck to see if that showed more. And that, again, was something that didn't show -- didn't prove to show a whole lot. The soft tissue part of the scan showed nothing. Because we had done his back and a few little mild places showed up in his back, they suggested shock waving his back, that that was a very -- that you get a quick response to recovery with that.

Q And they, in fact, did do the shock wave as well that day?
A Yes. And then he was -- then he showed signs of -- what's it called? He showed neurologic symptoms after that, which Palm Beach Equine says that that doesn't happen after shocking him. And I've talked to other vets and they say, yes, it absolutely does. So we probably treated the horse with Marquis for a month for no reason. It's hard to tell at this point, but the horse showed no other signs of neurologic anything. Just that one night. When I went to pick him up, he could hardly walk out of the stall.

Q Okay.
A So then the next day was followed up with Dr. Miller, a neurologic specialist, coming, because, again, the insurance won't pay for the neurologic medicine unless you go through these steps. So she came and viewed the horse and deemed that it was possible he was showing signs of maybe a horse that had EPM or something of the sort and advised us to put him on Marquis for a month. So we started the Marquis treatment.

Q Okay. Hold on there. Don't go too far. I appreciate that, but let's go chronological here. So based on the nuclear scan, you did not really learn a whole lot of anything as far as any mechanical issues?
A No. We rode the horse that afternoon. We got on and off of him, God, five or six times, different saddles, three vets out there watching the horse trying to get to the bottom of this. We blocked his shoulder out. There was some discrepancy -- half of us thought that blocking his shoulder improved the situation. Half of us thought there was no improvement. Again, we're dealing with a very, very slight lameness at this point.

Q Slight enough, but all the vets are seeing it?
A Exactly. It's slight, but it's enough to go, okay, what is that, but not enough to rule things out at this point.

Q But enough to know that he's not going to pass a vet?
A Yeah. He -- well, clinically he does actually. He x-rays good. He ultrasounds good. All that stuff is good. But just the visual part of watching him trot, no, he doesn't.

Q Obviously, if a vet was to vet him and see him trot, they wouldn't get to the x-ray stage?
A Correct.

Q Okay. Now, were you -- and you were there during the time when all this was going on with the blocking of the shoulder, the different riding, and the ultrasound?
A Oh, yeah. I was doing the riding myself. I was there for all of it. I was there when he was colicing. I was there when he was showing signs of neurologic. I was there for everything.

Q And I understand that on October 3rd you went to pick him up and that's when you noticed that he was wobbly?
A Yes.

Q He was unsteady?
A Yes.

Q So they left him there to be observed?
A Yes. He couldn't walk out of the stall.

Q They told you that this was a reaction, in their mind, to the shock wave therapy?
A No, they did not think it was a reaction to the shock wave therapy. I did. The horse was out of the stall for six hours. He was rectally ultrasounded so they could ultrasound his sacrum. We ultrasounded his back. We ultrasounded his neck. We x-rayed his neck. I was on and off of him six different times and then shock waved him with no trank. I felt like the horse had a reason to act like he could hardly walk. I think he was in an immense amount of pain. And he was very uncomfortable. We did follow up with the neurologic. He did walk like -- he had ataxia. That was it.

Q And you had never seen that before the shock wave therapy?
A No. Not at all.

Q All right. Now, they did stifle x-rays, I understand, on October 3rd?
A Yes.

Q And did they discuss with you any findings on the stifle x-rays?
A I don't think anything all that exciting. Nothing to validate the unsoundness.

Q Why is it -- if you thought about it, why is it that no x-rays were done of the front feet?
A I think because she had the x-rays and nothing showed up on the nuclear scintigraphy. That's better than an x-ray.

Q Well, she -- how did she get x-rays?
A Michael Newman sent her -- actually, Karen Newman e-mailed the x-rays to Dr. Snyder while the horse was at the clinic. She asked for them to be there while they were viewing the scintigraphy results.

Q So if Dr. Snyder has told us that she doesn't have and has never seen those x-rays, then she's mistaken?
A She's mistaken. Well, I was told there was nothing conclusive on the x-rays. But the x-rays were supposed to have been e-mailed to her. I did not do it myself because I never had them to do it with.

Q Okay. And you're telling me that Dr. Snyder told you there was nothing conclusive on the x-rays?
A I swear she did. However, they're pretty good about writing everything down and I'm surprised that there's not a sheet regarding the x-rays.

Q Okay. I mean, she certainly wrote down when she looked at a video, correct?
A Well, that's what I mean. So, you know, I'd have to -- I'd have to -- I'd have to question that. Maybe she never did receive them. I can't say that she did. I didn't hand them to her and I didn't e-mail them myself, because I didn't have them to do it with.

Q They did cervical x-rays as well?
A Yes.

Q Any findings on those?
A No. I think we didn't x-ray his feet because he didn't block in his foot.

Q You say "he didn't block" meaning he was still lame?
A Yes. He didn't block in his foot. They felt like it was up higher.

Q Now, I understand on October 5th, despite already having a reaction on the 3rd to the shock wave therapy, they still did another course of shock wave therapy, is that correct?
A Yes. We felt like it would be much less invasive at the farm where he hadn't just had a colicky reaction, where we didn't ride him six times that day, where we didn't rectally ultrasound him, where he hadn't been in the stocks for two hours, all that stuff. I watched him and, honestly, he wasn't nearly like he was. But he was definitely slightly affected by the shock wave. He definitely showed a little discomfort. By no means colicky or anything, but the look on his face was definitely different after being shocked.

Q Now, Dr. Turpin, she came to your facility to see him? It says here "at Palm Beach Equine"?
A Dr. Turpin?

Q She was the neurologist?
A I thought it was Dr. Miller.

Q Well, it's Meg Miller-Turpin.
A Yes.

Q She actually says here "at Palm Beach Equine."
A Palm Beach Equine, yes.

Q So did she see him before or after his shock wave on the 5th of October?
A After. She saw him -- he was shocked -- I thought he was shocked on the 4th. Shocked in the afternoon. When I went to pick him up is when he showed the ataxia, and the next morning was when she called and came out to see the horse.

Q I show here shock wave therapy on October 5th of '06 at 5:30 p.m. I showed that he had a shock wave on October 3rd.
A I didn't know they shocked him again on the 5th.

Q That was going to be my question.
A Okay. We shocked -- I think we shocked him again at the farm two weeks later. That's what I thought you were referring to.

Q We'll get to there next. I'm showing the October 5th shock wave therapy.
A Okay.

Q That was at 5:30.
A She looked at him in the morning.

Q Okay. Now, were you there when she did her exam?
A Yes.

Q And what did she tell you?
A I think basically it was somewhat inconclusive. He showed some signs of ataxia. He showed some signs of some weakness behind. It was not clear cut neurologic, though. It was not, yes, he has EPM or, no, he doesn't. It was, well, it would probably benefit you, there's no harmful side effects to treating him with the Marquis.

Q Her note, at least the note we received -- and I'll show you as well -- says "suspect stress-induced onset EPM."
A Yes.

Q Did she explain to you how it's possible that EPM would come about with stress?
A Yes.

Q And how did she explain that to you?
A Well, I -- I don't know if she explained it so much as I was already aware that's something that the horses can be exposed to and never really be affected until they're in a very stressful situation. And given -- I think it was a Tuesday -- the fact that he spent half the day being, you know, I'm sure in his mind, somewhat tortured, that was probably a pretty stressful situation: Moving away from home, living at the clinic, all that stuff.

Q Those are the invoices and bills we received. I marked them as Plaintiff's Exhibit 22. It's three pages.
A Yes.

Q It's two -- kind of two medical records and one statement. Is that what you received from her?
A Yep, that's it.

Q Is there any money due and owing on this bill?
A Yes. I have not paid that yet because I haven't been paid by Marc. I don't receive the insurance check for that horse, so -- that was a bill that was applied to the insurance.

Q Okay. What -- do you recall what bills were applied to the insurance that you assisted to?
A It was $8,035.

Q I mean, what -- hold on. Let's start back with Dr. Griffith. Did you submit the bills for Dr. Griffith?
A No. That's just routine maintenance.

Q And you charged Marc for that?
A Yes.

Q And then Dr. Scott?
A That's routine maintenance.

Q Okay. And then it started with him being treated at Palm Beach Equine?
A Yes. It was with a specific problem. And while he was at the clinic, I did not -- did not send in for the colic. It was advised to me by the agent to not send in for the colic but to only send in for the actual lameness treatment because that's what he was there for.

Q And that was Nikki Stokes that told you that?
A Yes.

Q How do you know Nikki? How long have you know her?
A I grew up with Nikki.

Q All right. So you -- Flemmingh had his one month of medication with the Marquis?
A Yes.

Q And I understand that Dr. Turpin, in the information she gave us here, said that the horse needed to be out of work for one month?
A I was not told by Dr. Snyder to keep the horse out of work for a month. We kept him out of work for two weeks, I believe. They wanted me to do a month at first and then, once we got the horse home and reevaluated him, there was no need for a month.

Q So at the time of the October 5th visit, you understood she was recommending him to be out of work for a month, at least at the time of that visit?
A I don't think so, no. No. It was definitely open for discussion between Kim and I. We never really discussed a month. I was very much adverse to a month and we discussed two weeks.

Q Okay.
A And that we would reevaluate.

Q If you were adverse to a month, you talked about it?
A Yeah, we talked about it. But I did not leave with the impression that we were taking that horse out of work for a month.

Q So you decided, then, you would take him out of work for two weeks?
A No. I did not decide anything.

Q Thank you for correcting me. Dr. Snyder had recommended, then, at that point, that you at least keep him out of work for two weeks?
A Yes. And we would reevaluate.

Q And did he, in fact, stay out of work for two weeks?
A Yes.

Q And when he was out of work, what type of things did you do with him? Was he getting turned out or hand walked?
A Yes. Both. Tried to keep him moving around as much as possible. Most -- he would get turned out at night when the weather permitted and his back seemed to feel the best that way, obviously.

Q Okay. Now, the next I see is a visit on -- let's see here. Next visit I see -- that's why I was asking you about the month, because the next visit I see with Flemmingh is a November 6th visit, which would have been a month later. That's why I am asking if he was actually out of work the whole month or if he was only out of work two weeks?
A Dr. Snyder did come. She would be there on occasion for Shoshana or for another horse. And it was definitely at that point that we -- we had started riding the horse within the two weeks. And I think it was one of those things we probably discussed: Well, if he's okay, continue; if he's not okay, stop.

Q Okay. So was he out of work for the two weeks?
A Yes, he was out of work for the two weeks. And then we slowly started back again.

Q For the next two weeks?
A For the next two weeks.

Q And then she came on November 6th, I understand, and did an arthrocentesis to the shoulder?
A Yes.

Q What was their mind set or reasoning for doing that?
A Well, because we had blocked his shoulder during the visit at Palm Beach Equine for the nuclear scan. And, again, like I said, there was some discrepancy, maybe he was better, maybe he wasn't better with that. And we were very, very close to being a hundred percent, but not quite there, and we were hoping that would push us over the edge of where we needed to be.

Q So at least on November 6th he still had some signs of lameness?
A Slight, yeah.

Q Now, on November 6th, when she did -- and we're going to mark this as Plaintiff's Exhibit 23 so we know later that we're referring to the November 6, '06 visit. On this day, she says that the horse needed to be hand-walked for three days. Is that what I understand in the right-hand corner over there?
A Yes. After having his shoulder done.

Q In fact, did you do that for the three days?
A Yes. I'm very religious about following what the vets say.

Q Okay. Now, there's an e-mail that was written to Marc Buck on October 6th. Let me find it so we're referring to the same thing here. Let me just glance through it because we kind of have to share it here. Okay. Let me just make sure -- I apologize. Because it's an e-mail that -- okay. Let me -- I don't want to give this to you out of context, so -- let me give this to you in context so it makes sense. On October 3rd, you sent an e-mail to Marc indicating that "Flemmingh is better. I was at the vet clinic with him." And you discuss with him what was taken over -- what you did with him.
A Uh-huh.

Q Then on October 5th, he's asking how Flemmingh is progressing. And on October 5th, you sent him back an e-mail that says, "We're still not to the bottom of the problem. He's still at the clinic." And you had discussions with him about that.
A Correct.

Q Now, on October 6th, he sends you back an e-mail that says, "How did the foot problem come about or did he have it when we bought him?"
A Correct.

Q "We paid the vet 1,200-some dollars and we ended up with a horse with a bad back and a bum foot. Will he be saleable or should I just bail out? I'm telling you I have no luck at all except bad luck." Now, this discussion here -- and then you in turn sent this e-mail responding to his questions. And what did you tell him in response to his questioning about whether or not the horses had it at the time -- Flemmingh had this at the time that he was bought?
A Say that again.

Q He asked you did the horse have it -- did we buy a bum horse is basically what he asked you.
A And my interpretation at this point was no. The horse hurt his foot in our care. That happens. Horses pull their shoes off and stand on toe clips. The horse was out in bell boots and boots all around. Beyond that, there's nothing I can do to help protect him. The back problem, it's hard to say. Did I create the back problem with the bad saddle? Did he do something on the plane and it didn't show up until much later? Those are things where, again, this is part of the education, is what I said to him. I don't think the vet missed anything. There is no crystal ball. I mean, it's not clear. And we weren't -- truthfully, at that point, as of October 6th, there was no -- we still weren't clear did he have a back problem.

Q Okay.
A We were treating him for that. You know -- and this is what I said to him: The saddle fit is like a shoe fit. We all have our preferences. It's not a huge deal. And it was coincidental. It just -- it sucked. It's -- like he said, I have bad luck. Did the horse come that way? I, in my heart, don't believe he did.

Q Okay.
A I still don't think that his back was a primary problem. I think the saddle thing was just a -- maybe coincidence. But I still stand behind the right front foot, just having lived through the whole experience.

Q We'll get to that.
A And, actually -- and when I wrote the e-mail, that was still my -- the vets had not really shown me anything that said otherwise, other than the day that he didn't block out. And when I consulted Bill Stanton about that, he said they don't always block out. When he saw the horse, he said right front foot.

Q Okay. Now, the e-mail here says, "The foot is really not a big deal, but he has be slightly uncomfortable right front. While it turns out the diagnosis was not right front, he has clearly been over that. The real problem is his back is sore." Now, at this time, you're telling him that you're thinking that --
A I'm going on what the vets have told me at this point. You know, we have injected his back. We've mesotherapied around his back. We've shock waved his back. So that's the thought process. I got talked into buying a $3,000 saddle. They convinced me enough at the time that it was his back. But, again, having lived through the whole experience --

Q Okay.
A -- I wish I -- I wish Dr. Scott and Jeff had never had a fight and Jeff had just shod the horse that day, because -- you know what -- as of September 17th, Jeff would have shod the horse and we might not have had any of these problems. It's just --

Q Hindsight is always good.
A I know.

Q Now, this e-mail also says, "I will probably try to start riding him tomorrow or Sunday." And this is October 6th, October 7th. This is the time frame when Dr. Miller's telling you he needs to be out of work.
A Well, I spoke with Dr. Ober, who is a vet that I have used for years. And I was a little panicked when I left Palm Beach Equine. They had -- not Dr. Snyder, but whoever -- Dr. Boswell, I think, had said something about doing a procedure where you would inject something into their spinal fluid to see if there's a place where their spinal cord is being pinched. It's a very invasive procedure. It is -- it was horrifying to even hear, and I feel like it was a fishing expedition. So I called before I even considered anything -- going anything that route. And I talked to Dr. Ober. And I told him about the ataxia. And he knows Dr. Miller, Dr. Turpin. And I told him what she said, that it was inconclusive. And he said, Treat the horse with the Marquis. Don't give it four weeks off. That's the last thing you want to do.

You're going to be right back to where you started. That horse is going to have a sore back again because he's going to be so weak when you start back. You're going to be six months away from getting anything done, if it had stifle issues, if it had this, if it had that. He had not seen the horse, but I had -- I had spoken with him once before when it was recommended to do a nuclear scan. And I -- because I had never done a scan on one before. And I called him and just said, "What do you think about this? Are we getting carried away?" He said, "Actually, the scan sometimes is the best thing to do. It's costly, but if the horse is insured, it usually will show anything and everything that's wrong. So sometimes you eliminate a lot of other procedures by doing the scan."

Q Okay.
A Okay. So at the end of the scan, I called him, and he -- you know, he just said, "No way does that" -- he said, "Unless you are grossly miscommunicating what that horse really truly looks like, there's no way that horse needs its spinal cord injected with anything."

Q But my question was --
A I have no idea when I started riding the horse. I don't think I gave it the amount of time off that was instructed all the way through. I know I did not give it a month off. I don't know if I gave it two weeks off. Once the horse was healthy and feeling better, we started riding him.

Q Marc makes a notation in his question: "We paid the vet 1,200-some dollars and we ended up with a horse with a bad back and a bum foot." At this time, you didn't tell Mr. Buck that there really wasn't a vetting that took place for $1,200?
A There was a prepurchase done by Dr. Barber, which I've never received a bill for, and there was more than a $1,200 bill to Dr. Griffith.

Q But the question is: At this point he's indicating, in his mind, that he believes he paid for a prepurchase and that's, in your mind, what you call "Dr. Barber's involvement"?
A Dr. Barber and Dr. Griffith collectively.

Q How does Dr. Griffith come in for his --
A Because he came and said the horses were fine. We've been over that. He came and looked at those horses and said they were fine. He looked in their eyes. He listened to their heart. He watched them trot. He -- I fully believe and respected his opinion, to the point that I let him inject that horse's front feet and front ankles a week after he did an insurance exam on him.

Q I need to get to the bottom of the prepurchase issues. You had on your invoice to Mr. Buck, $1,281 pre- -- that's a pretty odd number to make it $1,281. Where did you come up with that number?
A Off of a previous prepurchase I had done. He paid me the day he paid for the horses, and he knew that was a guesstimate, because, obviously, I didn't have an invoice; that I was going off of a previous invoice that I had myself.

Q From whom?
A I don't know.

Q From Dr. Barber or --
A No. Just probably from Dr. Steel's clinic.

Q Now -- but you will readily admit, as you sit here today, the only involvement that Dr. Barber had as far a prepurchase is reviewing some x-rays that you've never seen, that he told you were applicable to Flemmingh and Silco, that you listened to his opinion on?
A Yes.

Q Okay.
A Which I have to pay for. When I had Dr. Ober review Candino's x-rays, I had to pay for that.

Q I understand. But you've never gotten a bill from Dr. Barber?
A No. Have not.

Q And you never got --
A I fully expected to.

Q I understand that. I understand where your position is. And my question is: You never got a bill from Dr. Barber?
A No, I have not. Which that's why I applied the bill to Flemmingh's medical -- Flemmingh's other medical bills.

Q Okay. How do we know that you did that? What tells us that you applied that $1,281 to Flemmingh's other bills?
A Because when Flemmingh went to the vet clinic and I had to pay $6,000 to the vet clinic in one payment for him to leave, I didn't ask Marc for that money. I paid that out of my own pocket and was waiting for the insurance to come to clear up the rest of the bill.

Q How would Marc have known that you took this $1,281 that you never got a bill for and now applied it two months later to something else? How would he have known that?
A Marc should not question where the money went when I am fronting my own money to pay for his horse to have work done.

Q I understand that. But my question --
A He would have known had the insurance check come in and the final bill been paid. We didn't get that far.

Q And I'm trying to understand how he would have known. So --
A Because it would have been taken off of the bill. But I didn't get paid. I didn't get -- the insurance check didn't come, so we didn't get that far.

Q So, in other words, what you're saying is, then, he would have gotten X bill from Palm Beach Equine, less $1,281 for Flemmingh, less the half of that for --
A Whatever had been applied. There were -- again, there were vet bills from Dr. Griffith and so on and so forth. There were bills that needed to get paid out of that money, that still haven't been paid.

Q Okay. But Marc gave you the $1,281?
A On day one, yes. But, again, I didn't receive a bill, so that hadn't been applied to anything. So it got applied to other things. Because at one point Marc bounced a check to me. There were things that came up that made it difficult.

Q Did you ever make an effort to get with Dr. Barber prior to this litigation to get a bill from Dr. Barber for his involvement in giving you his opinions?
A No. I don't expect to receive a bill at this point.

Q Now, you told him in the e-mail that the vet didn't miss anything. But really the truth is the vet didn't actually look at these horses for you; they looked at them for Mr. Newman, correct?
A Dr. Barber viewed the horses for Mr. Newman. Dr. Griffith viewed the horses for us. And I don't think Dr. Griffith missed anything.

Q But you'll agree that Dr. Griffith's exam was not a thorough prepurchase exam?
A It is for insurance. For $75,000 for each horse, I would -- I would hope that he does a thorough exam that he feels necessary.

Q And you knew --
A And I feel sure that he does.

Q Okay. Did you give him any x-rays and let him look at the radiographs?
A He didn't asked for any. And, again, you know I've never had possession of those.

Q Now, up to this point -- and I know we talked about the conversation with Ms. Bieling and what have you. But up to this point -- now we're at October 6th -- had you had any more conversations with Mr. Newman now that you've gotten through the bone scanning and the shock wave and the possible EPM issue? Did you have any discussions with him about that?
A I don't know what date, but, yes, I kept him up to date as to what was going on. He thought -- he said, basically, see, I told you they would just run up a big bill at Palm Beach Equine. Is the horse sound? We're close but not a hundred percent yet. Hopefully some time will, you know, keep kicking things off. I think that was the extent of the discussion.

Q Okay. Now, there's another e-mail on October 12th that you sent to Mr. Buck. Let me mark this and give this to you. It's two pages, pages 65 and 66 of 91, for future reference, Exhibit 25, where you're telling him on October 12th that Flemmingh has just started back to work and he's back to trotting. That's why I'm asking.
A And this would be correct. One thing I didn't do to Marc is -- I pretty much kept him in the loop. I did not keep him in the dark as to what was going on with the horses.

Q Okay. Now, on October 12th -- this would have been six days after Dr. Miller told you to at least keep the horse off one month and Dr. Snyder said at least two weeks. But you're now riding him six days in. Why did you go against their advice?
A Dr. Ober.

Q And Dr. Ober is not in the state?
A No.

Q And Dr. Ober never saw the horses?
A No.

Q And Dr. Ober only had to take your word for what was being relayed?
A Correct.

Q Did he ever pick up the phone and call Dr. Snyder?
A Probably not.

Q Did you ever provide him any of the medical records to review?
A We didn't get that far into it.

Q Based on what you told him, he felt you could put the horse back to work?
A Yes. And the horse was getting better and better.

Q Okay. All right. Now, I'm trying to understand here, because another e-mail was put together on October 25th wherein you told him that Flemmingh's first day back to work was actually October 24th. This is page 68 of 91. Why did you tell him that the horse was in work on the 12th and then turn around and say that his first day back to work was on October 24th?
A Because typically when horses have had time off, you start off tack walking them and you tack walk them for a certain period of time and then you actually start riding them at a later date. So sitting on him and tack walking him does not justify somebody coming, jumping, and trying them, which is what he is referring to. So, actually, no -- the actual riding part of this, yes, maybe we were sitting on him, but that doesn't mean he was in full work.

Q I understand. I'm trying to understand. Here on October 12th, you're saying that he's trotting about ten minutes every day?
A Yeah. Mild work. That's hardly doing anything.

Q Okay.
A Trot five minutes one way and trot five minutes the second.

Q On October 25th, you're saying his first day back to work was yesterday. Are you implying or referring to the fact that he's now going back to full work?
A Yes. I feel sure.

Q Okay.
A It was very hard to convey to Marc that horses are like athletes and that you don't skip going to the gym for two or three weeks and then go and bench press the full weights you've ever bench pressed on day one; that it's a process. And that was a process that he never became comfortable with. It was always this time constraint that if you could ride the horse, then it should get sold tomorrow. It was very hard to convey to him that it just doesn't work like that.

Q Now, you agree Mr. Buck didn't know anything about horses, correct?
A Yes. No, for sure. Again, that is why I used terminology like "this is part of your education."

Q Now, I see the next visit with any vet is on November 21st of 2006. And he still had some issues in his left hind at the time of that visit?
A I thought we said we evaluated and did his shoulder.

Q No. I'm talking about November 21st.
A I know. But I thought we evaluated and injected his shoulder prior to that.

Q That was way back, like September.
A No, it was not. It was in November.

Q No, it wasn't.
A We didn't do his shoulder in September.

Q Hold on.
A We did his shoulder after he went for the nuclear scintigraphy, because we blocked his shoulder there on October 5th. We did his shoulder after that.

Q Okay. Hold on. I got the bill for it.
A Try around November 6th or so, I think you said.

Q November 6th. The next visit is November 21st?
A So November 6th to November 21st, correct. We did his shoulder on November 6th. They came back to evaluate on November 21st.

Q And he still had some issues with his left hind at that time?
A Yes.

Q You had told me that you thought he was going to have another shock wave therapy?
A We discussed it. I felt like spending more money at that point without having made his back a hundred percent -- shocking him and injecting it and mesotherapying it and chiropracting it had not made it a hundred percent, that we should not do that.

Q Okay. All right. Let me grab that bill. We'll mark it as No. 27.
A This is where she ultrasounded him and no charged us.

Q She found nothing on the ultrasound?
A Nothing on the ultrasound, all four legs.

Q I understand the whole issue with the virus thing in the month of December. Were you working the horses on the farm in the month of December?
A Yes. Once Jeff shod that horse around Thanksgiving time, that horse was sound, a hundred percent.

Q Now, I understand that Jeff put aluminum pads on Flemmingh?
A Yes.

Q What was the purpose -- what did he explain the purpose of that was?
A He said it could support his foot better, keep his foot out of the sand, and when he places his foot down, it would keep the horse from contracting. Each step he took, it would hold the foot together more. That maybe that contraction with where he stood on that shoe was still aggravating him. I had consulted with Bill Stanton again about this and he said he had known a horse that took a year for its foot to grow out completely where it was no longer sore, that it had episodes of being sound, unsound. Jeff said it could be soft tissue. But, again, we had already kind of ruled that out with the soft tissue exam through Palm Beach Equine.

Q But at this point you haven't done any other x-rays of the front feet to investigate what might be going on in there?
A Uh-uh.

Q Yes or no?
A No.

Q I mean: Am I correct?
A Yes, you're correct.

Q Okay. Now, do you know, as you sit here today, what date the x-rays for Flemmingh and Silco were taken in Germany?
A No, I do not.

Q So you don't know if they were a year old or six months old or 30 days old?
A They were current is what I was told.

Q What does that mean?
A Relative to the time that they shipped.

Q So, in your mind, would you have taken a horse that had x-rays 60 days out from the time that they shipped?
A No, not from a year ago or anything From -- I was told that the horses were x-rayed for Michael and that the horses, once they passed the vet, then got on a plane. No, year-old x-rays I would not have taken.

Q How old would you have gone back, if you had known the dates?
A I don't know, because I wasn't given the option. I don't know what I would have done at the time. Hindsight, I'd have to say no. If they weren't taken within a couple weeks of the horses flying or Michael being there, I probably wouldn't accept them.

Q Did you ever ask Michael the time frame between when he saw those two horses to the time they were shipped how much time had gone by?
A It was pretty clear that it was relative -- it was just a few weeks. Because I got home -- I was rushing to get the video before other people did.

Q The first stable that you stabled Flemmingh and Silco at, was that the Buttonwood South thingy?
A Buttonwood Street.

Q Okay. And what was the stall rate there at that facility?
A It depended. It started out higher. I negotiated once I had more horses there. I'd have to go back and look at the bills. You have the bills in front of you.

Q I don't have all of them. Do you remember at all what the --
A I know during season she gets $65,000 for the eight stalls for just the winter season.

Q When did you leave Buttonwood?
A Those horses stayed there until December

Q Okay.
A She just happened to have two stalls extra. But it was known -- like part of his accusation in the lawsuit was that he didn't know that the horses were going to be moving. The barn had been rented in April. It was very clear that we were not staying there all winter. The barn was rented before I even had surgery on my arm and thought about having investors. I was there when Kate Levy rented the barn. And that was conveyed to Mr. Buck.

Q Well, in reality, you didn't expect to be there because you expected the horses to be sold?
A Yes. But I expected to be somewhere else with other horses of his. This was a long-term business relation. This was not a 30-day, in and out, wham, bam, thank you, ma'am.

Q What was the rate that you paid for January of '07?
A The first check I wrote her was $11,900.

Q But what was the rate per stall?
A It was -- I'd have to do the math.

Q How many stalls were there?
A Six.

Q So about $2,000 a stall you were paying her?
A I paid a deposit too. Part of that was a deposit.

Q Okay. And you paid for the stabling from the monthly proceeds from the investors?
A I'm sorry?

Q You paid the stabling through the monthly proceeds of the investors?
A Yes.

Q Did any other vet see Flemmingh from November 22nd through January 10th?
A No, I don't think so.

Q Okay. What -- after Jeff had shod him, was he sound the entire time during that period of time?
A Yes. We did not really have any oopses. He was sore one day after the first day of jumping. I gave him some Arquel and that pretty much remedied the situation right away. I didn't give him any bute or anything.

Q Were you icing Flemmingh at any time during the time that you had him?
A Yes.

Q What areas would you ice?
A Just depended on what we thought the problem was at the time. We spent a lot of time icing that horse.

Q Do you routinely ice your horses in general?
A Yes.

Q What's your normal regiment for icing?
A Like Tristan bumped his leg in the paddock right around the first of December and we spent 30 days of icing him four times a day. Maybe it's overkill, but it's a precaution. And that horse doesn't have a problem and I didn't have to get it ultrasounded. I don't know. I just think it eliminates a lot of problems.

Q At the time that Marc had invested in Silco -- I'm changing on you now to Silco. At the time that you -- Marc invested, Silco had been on your farm for about two weeks?
A Yes.

Q Okay. And you were riding him during this time frame?
A Yes.

Q And did you tell Marc that the horse was already at your farm being ridden?
A Yes.

Q And, again, did you provide him a description of Silco as 16.2, 8-year-old bay gelding, he is also beautiful, easy, quiet, floats across the ground, not spooky, fabulous mover, good jumper, eligible for all the divisions at the horse show, but ready to do the three-foot-six, does not need a professional ride, live at home? Did you give that description?
A Yes.

Q You understood that description he would use in the efforts to sell the horse?
A No, not in the efforts to sell the horse. In the efforts to sell the project to other investors.

Q Okay.
A No. Again, you have stated multiple times that Marc knows nothing about horses. So how is he going to sell the horses?

Q I understand. But was he putting this online somewhere for these horses?
A On an investment Web site, was my understanding. If he put it somewhere else, it was not to my knowledge.

Q On August 28th, you sent an e-mail to Mr. Buck regarding Silco and you told him in that e-mail that there was so much interest in him that you didn't think he would get any more bills beyond this first bill; is that correct?
A Yeah. I didn't think.

Q So you believed that the horse was going to get sold?
A Yeah, I did. Yes. Because the mother had been -- Lindy had been to see the horse and iked the horse, and I was sending the tape to her daughter.

Q And that was Lindy who?
A Lindy Esau. And her daughter came and rode the horse at a later date and said that he was a little too green. That he was lovely, but a little too green for her kid. Her kid didn't ride that good.

Q Do you have a copy of the DVD that you sent out there?
A I don't. I wonder if I have it somewhere. I might can -- you know what? I didn't make the DVD. I think Jennifer taped it on her little tape and then we made it from there. So I don't know if we have a copy of that anymore or not.

Q Now, you advised Marc on September 12th that big wigs tried Silco and he was good. Do you remember having that e-mail discussion with him?
A Yes.

Q Who were you referring to that had come to try him?
A Andre.

Q And what price did Andre try Silco for?
A 150.

Q And we talked earlier why you felt he was worth a 150?
A Yes.

Q I think you told me last time you did advise him that Frank Madden was coming, but he didn't end up coming?
A Yes. Please tell me in there where I told him that Andre Dignelli and Frank Madden were partners.

Q I have no idea what that is about.
A It's printed online. Never said that. And, yes, Frank Madden was supposed to come.

Q Was Andre bringing Frank down for you?
A No. One had nothing to do with the other. I don't know where he got that from.

Q Why is it that Mr. Madden didn't come, to your understanding?
A We just didn't get that far.

Q Now, I understand that you marketed Silco in September of 2006 for 125,000 but advised Mr. Buck that that number would increase to 150 in October?
A Yes.

Q What --
A Lindy looked at the horse for 125.

Q What made you select these prices? How did those prices come about?
A Just inquiring what other people are paying for horses. They're worth what somebody will pay you for them. Again, it's a sales business.

Q Did you ever evaluate online or compare these horses to other horses to determine whether or not they were being adequately priced?
A Not online, no. Because expensive horses ever hardly get sold online. It's a word-of-mouth business. No. And Jennifer Bieling was there helping me price the horses and was very comfortable with what the horses were priced at. We discussed it relentlessly.

Q You advised Mr. Buck an September 22, 2006 that a professional came and rode Silco and had already arranged and scheduled a vet check for him. Who was that that you're referring to?
A I don't know. We would have to ask Jennifer. I don't think the vet check had ever really been arranged.

Q You told him that the scheduling of the vetting makes it highly unusual for the deal not to get done at that point?
A Yeah. That's -- when people tell me they're vetting a horse -- I haven't experienced all that many tire kickers until this year. I've been fortunate that way, I guess. When people say they're vetting a horse -- I don't vet a horse unless I know we're paying for it. Even when I went to Europe, we didn't have any horses vetted until I knew we were going to pay for something. And when people tell me they're going to vet it, then I go to my customer in good faith. And then it kind of made me look like a jackass. When, in fact, the horse got tried, the horse was very good and all I did was tell him too much. I would have been better off if I hadn't told him the horse was getting tried. When, in fact, the horse got tried, the horse did what he was supposed to do, I did my job, the horse was pretty flawless, and just nothing came about.

Q He was vetted at some point that he didn't pass?
A Not until much later than that. But that didn't transpire into a vetting, no.

Q On November 20th, you sent an e-mail to Mr. Buck advising him that Silco would be vetted on November 25?
A I thought we were talking about September 25th.

Q We were. On November 20th, 2006, you sent an e-mail to Mr. Buck advising him that Silco would be vetted on November 25th, 2006. Why did you not tell him he was vetted already and didn't pass? Because at this point, you knew he had been vetted and didn't pass.
A Because he was going to get vetted by a dressage person.

Q Who was that?
A I don't know the lady's name. She drives a yellow Hummer.

Q Now, you had already known that he had not passed the vet already at this point?
A Yes.

Q You knew that because you had already taken him to Palm Beach Equine?
A No. Palm Beach Equine came to me. But, yes, he had already been ultrasounded. That's why we showed him to a dressage person.

Q Now, at the time that -- who was the one that actually did the vetting or what client was that for when he didn't pass?
A When he didn't pass?

Q Yes.
A A customer of Jennifer's. And, hindsight, after leaving here, when you questioned me about who did the prepurchase, I don't think it ever made it even to an ultrasound. They took one look at his leg, palpated it, and walked away. I was instructed to have the horse ultrasounded to verify what was there. And Kim said, "You need to get rid of this horse. You can't sell this horse as a jumping horse. It's not good."

Q Okay. So you were telling me last time that Olivia had walked him over to Littlewood --
A Yes. Olivia didn't take him anywhere. Moya did take him across the street. I don't think the horse was ever ultrasounded. I couldn't get that much information, but I don't think there's even a report, because I tried to get a copy of a report.

Q Okay. But you don't know what vet actually did the work?
A No. I've got no information.

Q Okay
A I wasn't there, unfortunately.

Q All right. So all you know is that Moya left the property with the intent that the horse was going to get vetted --
A Yes.

Q -- and it didn't happen?
A And I knew something was up when he came right back.

Q And who instructed you to get his leg ultrasounded?
A Jennifer and I talked. And when we looked at his leg -- you know, it was obvious he had jumped several days in a row and things like that. When we looked at his leg, we were like (indicating). We had it ultrasounded.

Q But you knew -
A He was never unsound. He never limped and showed us a clear-cut sign that there was a problem. But his leg -- his leg was pretty evident that we had a problem.

Q And you had taken him to Palm Beach Equine -- Palm Beach Equine came to you on November 16th and that's when it was ultrasounded?
AYes. Because he wasn't unsound, we tried to sell him as a dressage horse. And that was a customer of Jennifer's. Jennifer tried hard for us.

Q Now, did Silco ever go out on trial at any time?
A No. I don't believe that.

Q Now, on November 30th of 2006, you advised Marc you would check on the status of the Silco sale. What was going on at that time on a sale on Silco on November 30th?
A What date?

Q November 30.
A We hadn't heard back from the dressage lady. Never did hear back from her, actually.

Q Now, on December 1st, you sent an e-mail to Mr. Buck talking to him about the check ligament?
A Yes.

Q Had you talked to him before about the check ligament prior to December 1st or was this the first time?
A I think that was probably the first time. Again, I was trying to exhaust my resources with the dressage avenue. And not knowing that many dressage people, when a week or so had gone by and I hadn't heard back from the lady, I felt like I couldn't prolong the inevitable of talking to him about it.

Q On December 1st, Marc sent you an e-mail. He's talking about that he was freaking out at this time because of all the information that had come about. And he said to you, "I think that your -- if your broker sold you a bum horse, he should be responsible for the expenses incurred in addition to the purchase price." Did you have a discussion with Mr. Newman at this point or any time during this point that there was something wrong with Silco?
A Yes.

Q And did you ask him to take Silco back?
A Yes.

Q And what was his response?
A That they would take Silco back. That I needed to pay him the $2,500 that was owed on Silco and pay for the flight for Silco to go back and that they would, in turn, send me several videos and/or pick a horse out for me to exchange.

Q And you would also have to pay for that horse to fly back?
A Yeah. But it's better than a horse you can't sell.

Q Now, at this point, you had already invested a lot of time and money in Silco?
A Both of us have. Not just Marc, but myself too.

Q Now, at this time, he is asking you on December 1st that -- he said, "I'd like to know the name of the vet and his phone number that did the initial vetting for Flemmingh and Silco." And this is the e-mail that he sent you. What response did you give him?
A I don't know. You have the e-mails.

Q He never got a name of a vet. There was never a vet ever sent to him, a name. You never gave him Dr. Barber's name and number, did you?
A No. Because, again, Marc knows nothing about horses. This is something I felt responsible to try to resolve for him. I felt like I was doing the best job I could to resolve it, by getting Michael to take the horse back and/or getting Michael to get his guy to take the horse back, whatever the case may be. That is a hard, hard, hard chore to get done. And I got it done pretty quickly and pretty easily. I felt like Michael was doing his part to work out the problem, as was I.

Q Okay.
A And I'm sorry Mr. Buck feels that that's not an adequate solution. But, you know, if the guy in Europe didn't know that the horse had a check ligament issue, he may have bought it that way being a dealer. But being willing to take it back, there's nothing you can do that's better than that. Nobody is going to give him his money back.

Q You never got an actual form from Mr. Newman with regard to a true vetting that had been done on the horses by the German vet, did you?
A No. I think I asked for one, but I never got anything. No. That would eliminate a lot of this confusion.

Q Because there's always that possibility that this thing was detected there and you don't know that?
A Possibly.

Q Okay. When is the last time that you've talked to Michael Newman up to this point?
A After my last deposition.

Q Okay. And what did you talk to Mr. Newman about at that time?
A I questioned him about the price sheet.

Q Okay. And what was his response?
A Absolutely not, did that ever happen. That the horses were always priced at 65,000.

Q What else did you-all talk about?
A He was going to Europe. Told him to let me know what he found.

Q So you still wanted to buy horses from him despite your relationship?
A I don't know how this is going to turn out. I'm still not sure where the truth is. I know that you guys feel like I've done something horribly wrong here, and I know I feel like I haven't, and I'm not sure who has. Other than the situation kind of sucks, I was willing to see it through. So I don't -- you know, I'm curious to see -- maybe whatever horses he brings back now will help define what's happened here. Maybe it will be the same scenario. Maybe it will be better. Maybe it will be worse. I don't know. But I know cutting him out isn't going to help me figure out the end result here.

Q You agree that neither of the two horses you bought from Michael Newman, at least those two horses, Flemmingh and Silco, didn't work out as you intended?
A Flemmingh, I think, will. I think Flemmingh will go ahead and be a nice horse. I think it's going to take some time. And Silco, I think he did everything he could to try to make it right. I know plenty of people that aren't taking horses back.

Q All right. Let me get into some other questions I have to ask you about. Have you ever been arrested?
A Yes.

Q Okay. When was that?
A God. October of '05.

Q And just give me a general brief overview of what that was about?
A I had a joint business account with a previous person. We had discussed -- we had a falling out. We had discussed closing the account on approximately October 24th of 2004. The account was closed on October 4th of 2004 while I was out of the state at a horse show in Maryland, Pennsylvania, and New York. I did three horse shows in a row. At the time, I had written a postdated check for the down payment on my truck dated for October 5th or 6th, something to that extent. That check then showed up as it being a check written on a closed account. That's a felony.

Q Okay.
A I paid the check. It was resolved. It was resolved immediately.

Q Okay. Were you -- have you ever been convicted of a crime?
A I don't know that that was a conviction. I don't -- I don't know how to answer that. You probably know. You looked up my record.

Q Where were you arrested?
A Pennsylvania.

Q Okay. And where did you have to respond to your -- to the charges?
A Jacksonville.

Q North Carolina?
A Yep.

Q Okay.
A They let me out on bail and I went to North Carolina, paid the check, and resolved the problem.

Q Okay. Any other arrests like that?
A Yes. One other. January of '06.

Q Okay. And what was that about?
A I had written a check for a horse -- I took a horse in on consignment in June of '05, I think. Had the horse for four months. Was told that it passed the vet beautifully. I spent -- it ran up a $14,000 bill. I spent money on it taking it to horse shows, travelling the country side. The horse got vetted three different times, flunked the vet three different times. It had the worst x-rays you've ever seen. New Bolton Center was using them as a teaching tool they were so bad. The guy that sent me the horse said, "Don't worry about it. We'll work it out on the next one." We accepted a $13,500 offer, which was obviously less than the bill it had run up. A $3,500 commission got paid out of that to the seller. So that left $10,000.

The horse had a $14,000 bill. This was in September of '05. We continued to work together to try to find horses for other customers in the barn to kind of help work out -- balance out the money. In December, about December 22nd, I believe, I got a phone call that said I needed to send the check for the horse. I said, "What are you talking about? The bill was more than the check." "No, no. We need to get the paperwork straight before the end of the year for taxes. I'll send you a check. You send me a check." I said, "Fine." I sent my check. I overnighted it. Gave him the routing number. As of December 27th, I did not receive a check. So I stopped payment on my check, trying to do the right thing, because I didn't want to have a bad check.

Q Okay. And who was the trainer?
A This was Thomas Fayhee (phonetic). I don't want to speak ill of the dead. He was killed in a plane crash last summer. I called the horse "Thomas." The horse came with no paperwork. On approximately January 4th of '06, a lady named "Debbie Broncato" called me and told me that I sold her horse and she never got paid. I said, "I don't know who you are and I don't know what you're talking about." She described the horse. Later determined that it was the horse that I called "Thomas" that I was told Thomas owned. So here is this lady that we have sold her horse for no money and she had no idea.

Q Okay.
A So I tried to -- we were going to try to negotiate on the money. She talked to some other -- you know, you know that I had a falling out. I've already told you that. Long story short, she took that check and took it to the sheriff and had me arrested for, I think, something with false pretense. Again, I was -- it's not like I stayed in jail. I made good on the -- we negotiated. I actually did not make good on the check. We negotiated down to 7,500 and I paid it and took care of it.

Q Who was the initial check made out to?
A Thomas Fayhee. I never knew who Debbie Broncato was. I never knew I had this poor lady's horse. I was told the horse was owned by Thomas Fayhee. Literally, when you're negotiating with somebody's horse about money and stuff, I can't believe that we sold her horse and she didn't even know. Truthfully, I was horrified, just as horrified as everybody else.

Q Did you ever make any payments to Tom Fayhee when he was alive, on that horse?
A No. No. He didn't own the horse and he never did anything to resolve his bill with me. He had another customer that he had sent me a horse and they happily paid their bill.

Q And how is it that you got involved with Thomas? Where was he operating out of?
A I think I met him down here and then we met up in Kentucky.

Q Have you ever been party to a lawsuit, either side? I know about this lawsuit. I know about the King lawsuit. Have you ever been a party to any other lawsuit?
A Jerry Stevenson was suing me, but I think that stuff got dropped. It never went to court or anything. We didn't even do depositions. He was suing me for stealing the truck that I drove for two years when I lived two blocks from him and he serviced it. It was more personal than anything. I'm assuming that's why it got dropped.

Q That's the gentleman you had a relationship with?
A It was not a relationship, but it was wanting to be in that direction.

Q From you or from him?
A From him.

Q Any other matters --
A No.

Q -- that you've been a plaintiff or a defendant in?
A I don't think so.

Q What town does Jacob Williams live in, in Texas?
A Houston.

Q Do you have his address and contact numbers?
A No. I object. He's not getting involved in this.

Q Who is --
A I'm not married to him. You can't drag him into this. You've officially said I'm not married to him, so . . .

Q I don't question what the court tells me I can do. I set the depositions. They decide if they can be done or not. I don't get to make that choice. The horse, Dreamboat, I saw he was registered to you with the USEF. What happend to Dreamboat?
A I had Dreamboat for about a week and then I gave him back because I couldn't really afford to pay for him and he was not sound.

Q And who did you give him back to?
A Chuck Waters.

Q So you never showed him?
A I showed him for a week or two, and then at the end of that was when I started having some drama in my life and decided I was probably not going to be able to pay for it. And, truthfully, I probably used that as my excuse, but the horse was unsound at the end of the horse showing and probably a little older than I thought. Everything happens for a reason. It worked out just fine for me.

Q We talked about Bernesto. I saw his name on the bills. And we're not going to talk about that. We already talked about that. Pebbles. Have you ever referred to Pebbles as Mrs. Smith?
A Yes.

Q What is Pebbles' real name?
A She doesn't really have one right now.

Q Is she registered to the USEF?
A As Mrs. Smith right now.

Q You said that your father owns that one?
A No, I didn't.

Q Who owns Pebbles?
A Will Tattersall. She's recorded with the USEF with me because he's not a member. But the insurance policy and everything is for him and goes to him.

Q And where does Will live? Is he here in Florida?
A No. I object. It doesn't matter.

Q You can object. You still have to answer the question.
A No, I don't.

Q Okay. We'll certify that question. Tristan is the one that's owned by your dad?
A Yes.

Q And that's the one that's been referred to as Mr. Smith?
A Yes.

Q Which is the horse that Peter King took to the horse show when he had a dispute with you? I understand he took one of your horses to the horse show.
A He didn't take it to the horse show. He took it to Rob Colluccio.

Q Which horse did he take?
A Tristan.

Q You got that horse returned to you?
A Yes.

Q Preston was the one owned by Shoshana --
A Gordon.

Q -- Gordon? Okay. When is the last time you talked to Herb King?
A February 4th, I guess.

Q Were you working with Mr. King in the same capacity you were with Mr. Buck, as an investor?
A Yes.

Q Did you have discussions with Mr. King about doing a line of credit to purchase horses?
A I don't think we ever got that far, but we had intended to, yes.

Q How did Herb King get to you? Did he get to you through his son?
A Yes.

Q How many horses had Peter King bought and sold with you?
A Just the one.

Q Just Bernesto?
A Yep.

Q Do you anticipate that dispute being resolved in the near future?
A Yes.

Q So you have the money to pay them; you just haven't had a chance to get to the right company yet? You were telling me earlier you have to pay a company for Bernesto?
A Concord Investment owned Bernesto and insured Bernesto. The bill of sale went to Concord Investment. I don't know who Concord Investment is, but the information that I was provided to give a wire transfer to Bank of America was for Peter King's personal account --

Q Uh-huh.
A -- with the Concord Investment name. They rejected the wire multiple times right up until I was sitting in Alecia Wolfskeil's office. We had a tracking number from the federal bank, made it all the way to Bank of America, and they returned it because the information was inaccurate. So I feel sure that some attorneys can resolve that issue.

Q So the money is sitting out there somewhere; you-all have to work it out?
A We have to work it out, yes.

Q Just Kidding. What ever happened with Just Kidding? Is that the one you told me last time that Stevenson has?
A He still owns it.

Q Now, I understood that Just Kidding was leased out to somebody for $30,000 and that you had never given Mr. Stevenson the money for that. Is there any truth to that?
A No. There is some truth to that. He did not receive the money for it because there were utstanding vet bills, farrier bills, everything. That money did not go in my pocket.

Q Duval is another one that you said went off with Mr. Stevenson?
A Yep.

Q And Coco Loco is the one that a bunch of different people owned?
A Yes.

Q Who is the horse known as Azuro Z, who I understand was registered to you?
A That was an equitation horse.

Q What ever happened to that one?
A He is in Canada.

Q When did you end up selling him?
A I didn't sell him. I sent him back to the girl.

Q And how about Leroy Brown?
A Leroy Brown got sold.

Q And where did he go to?
A Chuckie Waters.

Q And how about a horse named Over Indulge?
A Over Indulge. Oh, I think that might have been Coco Loco. We gave him a new name in hopes that he would have a little better luck. We thought his previous name was maybe some bad luck.

Q And Lexus?
A Lexus wasn't owned by me.

Q Okay. And who owned Lexus?
A Booth Parker, B-O-O-T-H.

Q Did you have something to do with selling that horse to Booth?
A Yep.

Q What was the -- how much did that horse sell for?
A 150.

Q Now, we had talked last time that you were going to get me a list of horses you sold or didn't sell.
A I haven't even worked on that. I'm sorry. I got distracted with trying to print out the stuff, trying to resolve that issue.

Q We'll do that on the next part. Okay. Safe Harbor. I see that one was registered to you. Where did that one end up going?
A I don't remember. How long ago was that?

Q I don't know. Did you know somebody by the name of "Alex Gerding"? Do you know someone by that name?
A Yes.

Q What is the dispute you have going on with Alex and the purchase of a horse from Alex?
A I don't have a dispute with Alex.

Q So if Alex is saying that you owe him $8,000, that would be wrong?
A To my knowledge, that was resolved. I haven't heard from Alex in over a year. There's no paperwork. There's no -- you know, you can claim to owe everybody money. Jerry Stevenson owes Dr. Steel's clinic money for the last five years. Am I going to pay for that and take care of it? Probably in the end.

Q I also saw on the USEF that you were suspended from May of '05 through September of '05. What was that involving?
A When the checking accounts and stuff were closed and my dispute with Jerry, it just caused some drama and I left the horse show without being able to pay the bill.

Q Did you ultimately wire them money of some sort?
A Yes.

Q Was there something accusing you of a fraudulent wire in that?
A Oh, I don't know. I've never seen it. Again, these are things that have been talked about for sure, topics of discussion. No -- no lawsuits, no nothing. Nothing has ever come about it. I had somebody following me in Pennsylvania. So what all transpired from that, I'm not real sure. But it was -- like I said, I changed my name for stalking reasons. This is why.

Q Okay. You haven't really officially changed your name as of yet, correct?
A The paperwork is in.

Q Have you done your fingerprints already?
A That's what we're waiting on. I have to go get a fingerprint card.

Q When will you be consummating that?
A As soon as I can. I haven't had a whole lot of time on my hands. I keep having to run to Fort Lauderdale to file paperwork.

Q Who is Margaret Milsted?
A She's a friend from high school.

Q Did she invest in horses with you?
A For a short time.

Q Did she have an issue where she raised a complaint with you over the ownership of Pebbles?
A Yes.

Q And you sorted that out with her?
A Yeah. Within two weeks.

Q Who is Ray Crockett
A Guy that lives across the street from me.

Q Here or in --
A North Carolina.

Q How is he involved in the horses or any horse deals with you?
A I bought and sold a horse for him a couple years ago, and he then -- we reinvested part of that money, and he still has some invested interest with me. He's aware of what all has gone on.

Q So he currently has some ownership in some horse with you?
A Not ownership in a horse, no. He has some invested interest in me.

Q What does that mean?
A Just he still has some invested interest in me and my business in some capacity. It's not been defined. He doesn't own any part of either of the horses I have possession of right this minute. My father owns one and Will Tattersall owns the other.

Q But I don't understand what you mean by invested interest in you.
A Well, like if you invest money in a business, you don't necessarily own that chair. You have invested interest in the business. He has invested interest in my business.

Q Is there any truth to you being banned from the HITS shows?
A Not to my knowledge. I've never received a letter or anything like that.

Q Where did Francisco Allazar go, do you know?
A As far as I know, back to Mexico. I tried to help Casey Millis contact him, but we were not successful.

Q Were you ever arrested in Lake Placid?
A No. For what?

Q I don't know. Just asking.
A No.

Q Who is Peter Yanos?
A Peter who?

Q Yanos.
A I don't know.

Q Is he a gentleman that owns Wellington Deli who loaned you $10,000?
A Peter Yanos?

Q Yes.
A I don't think that's Peter's name.

Q Do you remember the gentleman named "Peter" at Wellington Deli that loaned you --
A That owns Yanos Deli?

Q Yeah. $10,000.
A His name is not Yanos. He didn't loan me $10,000, but yes.

Q Did you resolve that with him?
A We are in the process of resolving that. He has received some money, yes.

Q And I understand that Ms. Moore invested in Pebbles. Did she ever --
A Who?

Q Ms. Moore. Anne Moore.
A No, she did not.

Q She never invested in Pebbles?
A I have not spoken to Annie Moore since the purchase of Pebbles was made. Haven't spoken to Annie Moore since April of '05 and Pebbles was not even purchased at that time. She invested money in Coco Loco.

Q Yeah, I got to get out of here soon. I have a mediation in Palm Beach. I'm going your way soon.
A So that's inaccurate information. I don't know who gave you that information. She's never laid eyes on Pebbles.

Q So she invested in Coco Loco?
A Yes.

Q Did she ever get her investment out of Coco Loco?
A I don't know. You'd have to talk to Casey Mills, Jerry Stevenson. They're the ones that have ownership of that horse, as far as I know. I sent it to Casey.

Q But you agree that Annie has some value in --
A She paid $5,000 towards Coco.

Q And have you ever talked to Ms. Moore about that money or how she's going to get that money returned to her?
A Not once the horse was taken out of my care. It's no longer my problem.

Q Did you ever do any horse deals with Karen Bruce? .
A Yes.

Q Did you ever have any issues with horse deals that you had with Karen Bruce?
A Yea. She sent me a horse that didn't pass the vet, that, again, ran up bills. This is why I don't do consignment anymore. And we sent a horse up to Connecticut that did get sold and it took me a little while to pay her because I wasn't sure how to handle the situation with a horse that didn't pass the vet. But she did get all of her money and ate the bill on the other horse.

Q Deposition Part II ended - One More deposition will take place where it is expected that Ms Hargett will bring the requested documentation to the deposition.
A